site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 7, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

From a certain point of view, think tanks are merely a constituent part of American politics, and their effects can't or shouldn't be calculated out to a one dimensional reduction.

From a certain point of view, Scott Alexander's blog is a think tank. For that matter, from a certain point of view, Scott Alexander's link roundup is a prestigious journal, but without the systemic wokeness which cripples academia.

After all, I think the reason many of us here is that Scott Alexander was willing to stand up to the social justice warriors before it was cool. The influence of Scott extends to the woke-skeptical like Paul Graham and others who spoke up in defense of Scott during the NYT's perfidious bullying.

I know I'm not the only one staggered by the left's insane hysteria in response to Trump. Without Scott Alexander to act as a beacon, it would be a lot harder to keep my sanity. Scott Alexander's ideology is a corrective force which reduces the damage the left can do.

But they are also a necessary set of institutions for balancing out democracy.

Groups of citizens discussing and forwarding an ideological agenda is the very essence of democracy. You seem to have an atomized view of citizens, but democracy works under principles of reasonable conversation driven by informed authoritarian sources.

We're lucky to have the institutions we have built for ourselves, but more to the point, there isn't any other way it could be.

I believe it is a race to the bottom type of situation. If the other side has ideological Institutions then you need their own to counter them. Wokeness came from ideological universities, and a bunch of orgs had to pop up to defend against it.

My point about these organizations being bad is that the woke fight might not have happened at all. There was a lack of things for leftist organizations to gather on. So they invented one.

As cynical as I am of institutional capture by wokes, I don't begrudge them their right to an opinion, their right to advance an agenda.

You want to live in a world where the woke fight never happened by wishing away intellectual collaboration in the service of a political ideology? That seems opposed to freedom of speech.

I have had to cut contact with woke people in my life but as much as it is straightforward that their ideology is destructive incoherence and irrationality, there still exists a point of view, an attempt to fight oppression no matter how imagined that oppression is.

These ideologies will surface and resurface because people aren't going to change. Bemoaning the necessity of the fight isn't winning the fight. The struggle is perpetual and the wokes must be defeated over and over again.

To be clear, I wouldn't wish them away if it was an option. Something can be negative but the overall correct solution is to just do nothing about it.