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Wellness Wednesday for September 18, 2024

The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:

  • Requests for advice and / or encouragement. On basically any topic and for any scale of problem.

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  • Advice. This can be in response to a request for advice or just something that you think could be generally useful for many people here.

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I’m in my mid 30s and I’ve never had much success with romantic relationships. When I was in my 20s I could get occasional 1st dates through OkCupid or friends. There were a few girls I was in short-term relationships with, but nothing lasted longer than about 6 months.

I believe that I’m on the autism spectrum and that is why I struggle so much with social interactions that have a romantic component to them. I’d say my biggest challenges are (1) that I find eye contact uncomfortable so I mostly avoid it and (2) that I avoid trying to take any interaction into a flirtatious direction because I lack the skills to do it well and I don’t want to make things awkward.

I workout a lot and I’m in great physical shape. I started taking my looks/diet much more seriously around age 25.

When I was in my 20s things were also complicated by the fact that I had a very naïve and delusion model of how dating/relationships were supposed to work. Basically, I thought being nice, conscientious, reliable, and having a respectable career were the main things I could do to be viewed as good boyfriend material.

In my 30s I got good at getting attractive women in their 20s to approach me and initiate the interaction. It only works at bars that have dancing and involves me being on psychoactive substances (primarily Phenibut) that reduce social anxiety and put me into a flow state. I only do this up to once a week. In these interactions I get feedback that I’m very confident and have good vibes, but I rarely try to flirt even though the woman is usually giving me clear signals that she is sexually attracted to me. I usually try to de-flirt the interaction by dancing in a non-sexual way, or by saying things like, “I’m just doing exposure therapy to help build confidence”. If an interaction goes really well sometimes I’ll ask for her number so that we can hang out in the future. Usually, when I ask for her number I get it. But usually she doesn’t want to actually hang out if I text her in the future.

I think there are number of reasons why I don’t put much effort into flirting in these situations:

  • Learned helplessness from my earlier experiences. Knowing that whatever I do will eventually fail at some point in the process even if the next step succeeds.
  • When I’m sober and not at the bar I’m not nearly as confident and fun so she’ll probably lose interest in me.
  • Wanting to be known as the friendly/approachable/safe guy at the bar instead of a creepy guy just trying to get laid. Currently, most of the bar staff enjoys my presence and is friendly with me.
  • Having a low sex drive so I’m mostly wanting a relationship for companionship instead of the sexual component.
  • Having to deal with the stigma of a 10-15 year age-gap.

I’ve tried looking for women to date in sober environments and online dating and I just haven’t found anything that works for me. I’m not good enough at masking my autism so most of my social interactions go poorly. Even if I find a decent sober environment (like book club) I feel like there are social norms that prevent me from asking a women out.

My views on dating have also soured in 2 relevant ways:

  • I’ve seen first-hand how the confident/fun guy gets treated so much better than the boring/stable/normal guy. I don’t want to just be treated like the normal guy that she reluctantly settles for.
  • I can get attention from women in their 20s and it made me lose interest in most single women closer to my age (generally the ones that would have made good girlfriends/wives already paired-off when they were in their 20s). Since I don’t have much relationship experience I probably can’t meet the expectations of women in their 30s anyway.

What is the best path forward for me if I’m looking for a relationship that is mostly focused on companionship with a woman in her 20s?

I’m at a crossroads because my Phenibut experiences made me disinterested in pursing women in any other way. The women I meet sober are much less enthusiastic about me and less physically attractive. I feel like I could attempt to flirt more while at the bar, but I’m afraid of getting a reputation of being the guy at the bar that hits on too many women.

I find eye contact uncomfortable so I mostly avoid it

I hear this sort of thing brought up a lot as a sign of autism, and maybe it is in higher doses, but from generic people-watching and life experience, most people don't make eye contact most of the time. Eye contact does happen in platonic and romantic interaction, but excessive eye contact is off-putting in its own way (creepy). It's up there with how people generally don't directly face each other when talking, but more obliquely. IMO it's important to make sure we compare ourselves to real, normal people rather than exceptions or movie characters.

Your thinking is wrong - women in their 30s generally have lower standards and prioritize stability and dating the boring guy. I would try that for awhile given your current strategy isn’t working.

Generally, women in their 30s have lower standards about how much entertainment and validation you need to provide on an on-going basis.

They have much higher expectations about things like owning a house, your career trajectory, and how well you can navigate standard social interactions.

For instance, with many women in their 20s it is fine if you’re just having fun, rent a mediocre apartment, and haven’t got your career sorted out yet. At some point by their 30s those become dealbreakers to many women.

I don’t own a house because I wanted to live downtown to help with my social life, but then I got locked out of the housing market by not buying a house before the inflation from the Covid policies. So, that is one factor that puts me a disadvantage with the 30s women. Also, due to autism I don’t have any desire to become a manager/leader at work, so my career has kind of peaked as an individual contributor.

Counterpoint: the ones in their 30s who are still single are the ones who haven't changed their priorities yet and still live in Fantasyland.

I dunno man. I think you basically have it right. I recently found this: https://nuancepill.com/is-autism-the-real-black-pill/ and I felt so seen. Autism is just really, really bad for attracting women, even worse than being physically ugly.