This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
If he supports Democrats to win elections and has switched to Democrat positions, how is he not a Democrat?
Because most of his positions have not changed. He is in his own words a Bill Buckley, Hobbesian, small government conservative (which may sound familiar to a certain ex-mod) He wrote a book about how the Republican party under Trump and the Democrats both suck. Now I think his hate for Trump is over the top and he has let it warp his view, Trump isn't the devil. But its clear from his writings, he thinks the best way to get a small g government and fiscal responsibility is to reform the Republican party without Trump. And he thinks the best way to do that is rob Trump of his influence by trying to make sure he loses. But his long term vision is just not compatible with the Democratic party, which he repeats in his book. Its an alliance of convenience, the enemy of my enemy kind of situation as he explicitly calls it.
Like RFK switched to supporting Trump but many of his positions are not Republican ones. He is still an independent, he is just aligning with Trump for the moment. He may well run again as an independent next election.
The Republican party under Trump has moved somewhat away from the neo-liberal conservatism of Bush and Reagan and towards a set of more populist, protectionist policies. That means there are indeed Republicans who have not changed their positions who are now less happy with the party. And vice versa with the Democrats move away from the working class. Doesn't mean they have suddenly flipped their positions.
Rick Wilson July 22, 2024
Yes? Given he wants the Democrats to beat Trump he is hardly going to say their candidates are terrible is he?
Beyond that:
George Bush also said "Though we have political differences, I know Joe Biden to be a good man, who has won his opportunity to lead and unify our country."
McConnell: "I know Joe Biden pretty well. He’s a good guy; I like him personally,” McConnell told an audience in Louisville on Tuesday, referring to the more than 20 years they spent together in the Senate and the deals they worked on when Biden was vice president."
Romney: "Romney, who’s called Trump a “phony” and frequently criticized the president the last four years, described Biden as a “man of character" who wants “to bring honor and respect to the White House,” which is “important here and around the world.”
Geoff Duncan: "Well, I am a lifelong Republican. I believe in conservative principles, but I can't help but notice that Donald Trump is a trainwreck for us. And my game plan to try to eliminate him from our party is to vote for Joe Biden."
Christine Whitman: "Biden is a decent man, he's a steady man," Whitman told Reuters. "Trump is trying to paint the world of Joe Biden as horrific - but that's Trump's America now."
You can think your political opponents are good people, good Americans and even great leaders. It still doesn't mean you support their policies. Especially for those who seem to hate what they believe Trump has done to their party.
Again, to be clear, the realignment towards voters is probably a genuinely positive move for the GOP, but that does not mean that the more neo-liberal Republicans who really dislike that change and Trump suddenly become Democrats. They may align with them in a 2 party system, but that is not the same thing.
"Great" is simply too far. He's been horrible from a Reagan or even GWB policy perspective. You have the right to remain silent. Or simply say, "his mediocre administration is an improvement over Trump's, because , which even if he did, it wouldn't be either accurate description of a Trump policy, nor an accurate description Reagan/Bush policy.
Sure, he might not think Biden has actually been great, but in political terms, Vote for this side, they are not quite as bad as the other, is not generally a success at getting people energized about the side you want to win. He wants the Democrats to win against Trump. That means hyping them up, even if he doesn't think they are actually good. Seriously read his book, he REALLY REALLY REALLY hates Trump AND dislikes Democrat policies in general (though he is more concerned about small government and fiscal concerns than social stuff). He was a political consultant for Republicans for decades. He created an organization specifically to try and stop Trump getting elected.
TLP is now about opposing all Republicans.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link