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Sorry, I think I initially misunderstood you. Yeah, crime data is likely to be available to the public, but there's the "in an easily parsable format" part of my initial statement. Generally, I think you should make it as easy as possible for others to double-check your work, and minimize "fuck you citations".
What do you do when the only data you have is from a time when a more strict and selective immigration process was applied, or refers to to completely different groups, or ignores immigration background and just lumps everyone into "US born"? By the time you get proper data, it's too late, the immigration is fait accompli.
I agree with that, I just don't think "data" is a particularly good argument either.
Yes, and doing it right will always include a certain amount of Witchcraft, because any systemic approach that gains widespread adoption will be gamed by people vying for power. Even Rationalists flirt with that idea when they talk about Goodhart's Law, though they never take it to it's obvious conclusion.
If you want to use Rationalist lingo, I'm just saying Rationalism is full of logical errors, often ones that are more likely to lead you astray than primitive grug-brained heuristics. It's the IQ Bell Curve Meme come to life.
Data literacy is your own responsibility. Most people don’t have it, but that’s not the fault of the people who did learn to work with data. I think it should be more of a responsibility to learn this skill in our society.
As far as making your analysis available to double check, it’s often common to publish the code you used to run your analysis in the supplemental material section. Not always, but not uncommon. If so you can explore the assumptions that were made.
I feel for you, but you should use other methods to try and convince me that you’re right and we need to shut down immigration levels rather than relying on cheap tricks.
You could have convinced me of anything using such rhetorical tricks, so clearly I should have antibodies against those if I aim to get by in the world.
Furthermore, you’re implying that recent immigration is obviously related to higher crime, but how did you come to that conclusion? Can I trust that your reasoning is based on anything other than what social media algorithms show you? You would obviously say no, but I know that there are powerful algorithms and echo chambers which pump out fear content about immigrants 24/7, so don’t be surprised when I am skeptical and ask for harder proof.
It’s not that I’m saying that there’s no way that immigrants post 2018 are committing high rates of crime, it’s just that all the other data I can get my hands on makes me doubt that this is the case.
But you can take solace in the fact that the emotional rhetorical stuff is the language that 90% of the population speaks anyway, so you have a clear advantage in the court of public opinion if your goal is just to reduce immigration no matter what actual data on rates of violence say.
Yeah, but I'm talking about availability and legibility, not literacy. If you don't think people who already worked on the data should pass on their work on the former two, there's no point in publishing any numbers in the paper at all. Just say "Immigrants commit less crime. Don't believe me? Check for yourself, chud!".
a) How much you want to bet they didn't do it in this case?
b) The code on it's own is not particularly useful without the input data, and just constitutes a "fuck you citation". This is the entire thing I've been driving at all along
I'm doing no such thing. I'm pointing out how trivial it is to manipulate data, even if the actual truth is the opposite of what the data is showing.
Idk. $50?
It’s not that uncommon of a practice.
Here, fuck it. I’ll save you the trouble.
Let’s find the study. Here it is:
https://nij.ojp.gov/library/publications/unauthorized-immigration-crime-and-recidivism-evidence-texas-0
Very first line: tells you where to get the data. Good sign.
Now open the actual pdf.
Go to the end of the report.
Hey, look at that! There’s a link for all the code and data used in the study.
https://www.openicpsr.org/openicpsr/project/124923/version/V1/view
That page is interesting, they share metrics and it looks like 224 people have all downloaded the data and code they shared. Open science is definitively the way to go!
I’m digging around, and wow, they even provide a document called replication_instructions to walk people through the process of replicating their analysis. That’s really going all the way for open and reproducible analyses.
I’ll drop the $50 down to just an: “I was wrong, maybe I shouldn’t make such quick assumptions”.
I was wrong, maybe I shouldn’t make such quick assumptions
...Though they are fun (which is why this probably won't get me to stop)!
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