This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I think TERFs are actually an example of the strained tolerance that @Spez1alEd spoke of. Most TERFs, if you actually talk to them, will tell you a story of having once been a pro-trans liberal or radical feminist who accepted trans womens' claims at face value and even thought they were "breaking the gender binary" and thus defying the Patriarchy. Then, for various reasons (many of which have been discussed here) they hit "peak trans" (a phrase they use akin to their "redpill moment") and started seeing trans women as men appropriating women's spaces.
Historically there may have been some TERFs who were always vehemently anti-trans, but radical feminists were (and to some degree still are) pretty divided on the trans issue. It's not as simple as "They're just disgusted by us and won't compromise."
I would argue JK Rowling (not really a TERF but for some reason now held up as the TERF Queen) falls into this category -- she was tolerant of trans people until she started questioning the ideology, and even after her infamous letter she was still clearly supportive of the right of trans women to live as women - just not the right to be legally considered women. To the degree she's become hardened and more belligerent in her stance now, it's probably from years of relentless attacks online - trans activists seem disgusted by her very existence and don't want to compromise at all.
More options
Context Copy link