This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I'll still ride with friends on occasion, but the level of risk has just gotten to be too high for me to be a cycling hobbyist as I've aged and gotten more sensitive to risk. I'm more of a runner than a cyclist anyway and I can get the fitness benefits from using a trainer on Zwift, so this isn't a huge sacrifice for me, but it is unfortunate that even living in a pretty bike friendly city, I just don't feel like it's worth it. Most motorists are basically fine and give you plenty of space, but it doesn't really matter if most people are fine, it only takes one moron staring at a phone, one drunk like the scum that killed Gaudreau, or one malicious prick that just think it's funny to antagonize cyclists.
It remains amazing to me what a polarizing issue this is. I'm kind of struggling to write anything meaningful about the topic that isn't absolutely filled with vitriol. The absolute entitlement I see from motorists in comment sections is just incredibly over the top. Almost uniformly, these are people that have absolutely zero experience with cycling, as where cyclists almost always have plenty of experience driving. Personally, I have hundreds of thousands of miles driving, tens of thousands running, and tens of thousands on my bike. The number of genuinely dangerous incidents I have encountered that are caused by motorists across all of these is high, so high that it was enough to make me decide I just don't want to bike on roads at all. Despite that, you'd think that the most dangerous thing anyone had ever seen was a cyclist rolling an all-way stop sign if you read comment sections.
If I ever returned to significant road cycling, it would either mean that something changed quite a bit.
I guess my risk sensitivity is just much lower. Or maybe it's that I do suburban bicycling; maybe even a "bicycle friendly" city is worse than dense New Jersey suburbs. I've biked in Manhattan (which despite bike lanes, no one is going to confuse with "bicycle-friendly") and going down 7th avenue is another level of insane, but it's not like I expected anything else. (and driving in Manhattan is also another level of insane, even if it involves less personal danger per mile)
I'll cop to just basically being pretty soft about it. I don't think the objective risk level is all that high. People get killed around here occasionally, but it's usually either their fault or at least substantially avoidable. The risk-tolerance is less as an objective matter (I wouldn't be down for road trips in the car if I was really that concerned) and more feeling a personal sense of vulnerability on the bike that I just don't like.
I've had a couple incidents that freaked me out where I realized I'd have very little control over living or dying, which I think might have put that seed in my head; on a rural road, guy takes a left turn at the T in front of me unreasonably fast, comes across my lane at a short angle doing about 50 MPH head-on, I was lucky to bail to the side of the road in time. A big dude on a Harley pulled up at the stop sign next to me after seeing it to check and make sure I wasn't too rattled by it. I know these things are low probability, but I can't get it out of my head.
Don't get me wrong, if someone wants to grab the bikes to head over to trivia night a couple miles away, that's cool, I'm not paranoid about something relaxed and easy. If some buddies want to do a little lake loop ride (~12 miles), I'm down. It's the combination of speed and open roads for long rides that just kind of gets in my head.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link