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Okay. If you're talking about a woman who deliberately goes off birth control despite knowing her husband doesn't want a baby, I agree, that sucks, and he's be justified in considering that a betrayal and leaving her (but he's still responsible for the child - that's the deal when you get married). I would certainly sympathize with him more than with her in that case, though I wouldn't join in the public shaming and stoning you seem to want.
But other than anomalous edge cases, you haven't described a "cultural problem" other than that you think it's unfair that men can't either force or forbid women to have abortions.
I disagree that this is a problem, and I disagree that the reasons are a double standard.
Ok cool, that's way more than most would offer, but it also needs to be the case where the pregnancy is a true accident, and all other cases sans the truly exotic. Not only in the most egregious and difficult to prove case.
You shouldn't sympathize with her at all, and the social stoning is the point. People should be socially deterred from cheating on their spouses and bringing children into that family that aren't fully wanted.
This bad faith interpretation of my words can talk to my hand. You're welcome to bring a real objection to my position forward if you'd like.
Wait, so if she is on birth control but gets pregnant anyway and decides not to have an abortion, I should still hate her?
Why? Why is it so important to you that we make this a black and white issue where she is pure evil and deserves no compassion at all? I think wanting a baby and going to deceitful lengths to get one is bad, but it's also the sort of dumb decision people make, because you know, biological imperatives are pretty primal. I'd tell her (if she asked me) that what she did was selfish and irresponsible, but I would not get a hard-on in solidarity with all my wronged brothers by screaming "Fuck you!" in her face.
I am trying to understand your position. You keep changing the terms, and my interpretation might have been incorrect, but it's not bad faith. You really do seem to basically want to punish women for having the final say in reproductive decisions.
If that's what she said she'd do in the event of an unexpected pregnancy, yep. Stone her. The common blue tribe position is that partners need to communicate on this issues, but it's also a common blue tribe position that women can change their minds about these things whenever they want, especially when a pregnancy actually happens. Communications mean nothing if they don't bind.
In the event nothing was said beforehand, I'm willing to call them both morons and move on. She's the bigger moron considering she has the power, but if it ever came to pass that this were the biggest injustice in the way we adjudicate these matters I'd consider that a virtually unconditional win for any semblance of balance between men and women.
Because if we're going to offer men cultural and social protection in lieu of legal protection from the abuse of women's reproductive power, these protections need to bite. It can't just be like, well you shouldn't do it, but if you do it nothing bad happens to you, oh well.
Please highlight where I have "changed the terms" in such a way that gave you the impression that I want to force women to have abortions like some kind of deranged psychopath.
I want to punish women for abusing this final say like we punish cheaters.
Okay, this is literally insane to me. I'm just genuinely so boggled I don't know where to go from here.
We disagree, is all I can say.
I confident you would be just as horrified if I said that men should also be stoned if they say they'd be fine with another kid and then dipped out when one actually happened.
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