site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 19, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

The value is that the Second Amendment and the AR-15s it protects form a coordination mechanism for resistance to government overreach generally

I hear this narrative, and all I see is that you've concentrated everything into a singular highly-visible tripwire, and thereby given the enemy a roadmap for successful oppression. The assumption seems to be that any "slide into tyranny" must include, early in the chain, a mass confiscation of guns, and therefore, the time to engage in armed resistance to agents of the state is when they do that… and only ever when they do that.

But what if they don't?

If you'll only shoot when they violate your 2nd amendment rights, that means you won't when they take away your 1st, or 4th, or 5th, or…

The cops start searching homes and arresting people without warrants? Well, they're not taking away your 2nd amendment rights, so no resisting.

They begin arresting people for "hate speech"? Well, they're not confiscating your guns, so armed resistance is off the table, and you submit.

They shut down your church and forbid your faith? They haven't disarmed you yet, so it's not yet time for violence, and you submit.

They confiscate the contents of your bank accounts? Well, you've still got your guns, so you submit.

They begin sending people to jail without a trial or a lawyer? Well, they haven't taken your guns, so you submit.

They begin sending people to jail without a trial or a lawyer? Well, they haven't taken your guns, so you submit.

You've announced the one and only time they'll meet force, and thus, that they can enact every other bit of tyranny they want without ever having to worry about those guns. And thus, why would they ever need to worry about them?

The cops start searching homes and arresting people without warrants? Well, they're not taking away your 2nd amendment rights, so no resisting.

Sympathetic nutjobs(all of whom are heavily into the 2nd amendment) resisting will trigger more resistance- ruby ridge to okc.

Sympathetic nutjobs(all of whom are heavily into the 2nd amendment) resisting will trigger more resistance-

That's not what I see from the right wing red tribe people I know IRL (i.e. my family and most friends), nor from similar people online (see for example commenters at Sarah Hoyt's blog). Instead I see denunciations of anyone who shoots as cops as automatically losing any and all sympathy, because you Just Don't Do That Ever, with the one and only exception of gun confiscation. If they're not taking your guns, you don't resist. Ever. And anyone who does resist our Boys in Blue is automatically thereby a Criminal Scumbag Who Deserves What They Get.