This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
According to boxrec.com Khelif is 37-9 with 5 KO's. I would expect a fighter with full male testosterone to dominate the sport if they were a skilled fighter, or have an unusually high share of their wins come as KO's if they were an unskilled fighter who managed to occasionally land an exceptionally powerful shot. Khelif seems to be good but not great with an average KO rate. Contrast this with Caster Semenya who was setting records in the 800m no one had touched since Soviet women set them in the 80's.
It's possible Khelif has some sort of intersex condition and a testosterone many standard deviations above normal for a woman but not at male levels. She seems more like a tricky edge case about where the line should be set than a clear cut example of someone who should not be allowed under any circumstance to participate.
I don't know what her life has been like but I doubt being an intersex woman in Algeria is easy. She probably has experienced considerably more sex discrimination than your average western feminist trans inclusive or exclusive (unless her parents are incredibly rich and she was in some sort of bubble). Regardless of whether on not she should be permitted to compete I think there's something unseemly about declaring her a violent misogynistic man victimizing women as so many on twitter have done.
Her wiki article says she collected scrap metal to afford bus fare to her early boxing gym, and her father opposed her competing on the basis of her being a woman. It's very possible she has some sort of intersex competition; that's a thing the IBA disqualified her for but the IOC declined to. It certainly doesn't sound like her childhood in rural Algeria was privileged and a bucket of laughs, and she definitely seems to be an edge case.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link