This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
This is only a small facet of the problem though, otherwise how do you explain all the many cities around the world with lower imprisonment rates and lower crime rates both?
Fewer criminally-inclined people in the first place.
NYC is much safer than other cities with similar demographics.
Every American city is dramatically safer than it was in the 1970's, even if the demographics haven't improved.
It really is possible to reduce violent and property crime by an order of magnitude relative to the demographic-driven baseline (compare crime committed by Jamaicans in Jamaica to crime committed by Jamaicans in the UK) through effective policing backed up by swift and certain punishment of criminals. Most Western European and 1st-world Asian cities do this.
I have no idea why other American cities can't get their "crime per member of a high-crime ethnic group" numbers down to NYC levels, but the problem doesn't appear to be fixable by electing Republicans or tough-on-crime Democrats at the local level.
One thing I do think is that the easiest way to reverse the recent trend in shoplifting is to clamp down on the large tech companies running online marketplaces for obviously stolen goods.
I don’t think these crime statistics really capture the picture. How often are things even reported? In NYC many quality of life offenses have blended so deeply into the noise of city life that nobody will report it because it’s not a serious crime.
If a psychotic drug zombie is screaming at me on the subway platform about wanting to stab me and how he could kill me, is that a crime? Actually yes, it’s technically an assault under NY State law. Will anybody report it? LOL
Repeat this ad nauseam and you see how crime statistics are low but there is a massive degradation in quality of life
Based on my experience as a tourist in the US, general disorder and quality of life crime is still lower in Manhattan than in the centres of most other US cities (thinking about it, I think the Vegas strip and immediate environs was nicer). Compared to a northern European or 1st-world Asian city, NYC is a bit grubby. San Francisco is filthy.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Yes, but this was done largely by putting criminals in penal institutions.
Why not? That's how NYC did it.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link