site banner
PaperclipPerfector  3mo ago (text post)   34134 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 29, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

9
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

If I didn't capitalize the word "black" in my sentence, there could be people here who would demand I capitalize it.

The question is what sort of person would object to not capitalizing black, if white also isn't capitalized. I would consider such a person a racebaiter of the lowest sort and their admonishment of you would surely lead to them either getting downvoted, piled-on, or most probably both.

They sought guidance

Whose guidance? Were these advisors "trained marxists", holders of PhDs in critical race theory, or did they ask for the opinions of people who do not see race as that important? I think it was the former, so their decision is just laudering what they wanted to do anyway through academics.

The question is what sort of person would object to not capitalizing black, if white isn't also capitalized.

Why can't black be capitalized but not white? I don't think it's necessary in this case to capitalize both. It's the same sort of thing when people counter "Black Lives Matter," by saying, "All Lives Matter". The former statement isn't being made to belittle the lives that aren't black, but rather, to affirm that Black lives truly matter to them and worthy of the same protections in society that non-Black people have. Capitalizing Black in the context of race but not white is done for a similar reason: there is a greater consensus that Black people have enough shared experiences that their identity should be recognized. As it stands right now, the same cannot be said for white people.

Whose guidance? Were these advisors "trained marxists", holders of PhDs in critical race theory, or did they ask for the opinions of people who do not see race as that important? I think it was the former, so their decision is just laudering what they wanted to do anyway through academics.

Do you have any evidence to suggest they were "trained Marxists"?

  • -14

there is a greater consensus that Black people have enough shared experiences that their identity should be recognized. As it stands right now, the same cannot be said for white people.

A bit tautological- marking white people as "the group without an identity" does give them an identity and a mass of shared experience. One defined almost wholly in negative ways and a requirement for higher standards of evidence, but still.

Do you have any evidence to suggest they were "trained Marxists"?

That's probably a reference, maybe indirectly, to Patrisse Cullors, the infamous BLM leader that bought 4 houses with the money donated to BLM.

If you're asking if CRT is descended from Marxism, or most PhDs in CRT have also dabbled in Marxism, I feel comfortable saying yes but providing sufficient evidence for that is a sizable project. Short version is CRT is descended from critical theory, which was developed by the Frankfurt School, (broadly) a descendent of Marxist thought attempting a synthesis without the failures of Marxism-Leninism.

If you're asking about the AP style guide specifically, I don't think anyone outside the AP can answer that.

have enough shared experiences that their identity should be recognized. As it stands right now, the same cannot be said for white people

Says who? Even the avowed leftists that pass through here generally do not buy into this brand of fanatical anti-white hatred

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats