This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
FWIW, I think 895158 is being extremely dishonest in that thread and this isn't the first time I've found @TracingWoodgrains judgment to be questionable, for all that I think he is a very smart and sincere guy with noble intentions.
That said, he's not wrong that you are pretty explicitly on the accelerationist side of things. The difference between you and some of the other accelerationists is that you seem sad that it will come to that, whereas the people I think of as genuine bad actors are cheering for it. I suspect 895158 doesn't make such distinctions, so to him, someone like you who very carefully lays out your principles and why you think it's going to come to violence and why you think it's the only pragmatic solution for your side, even though you might wish it were otherwise, is no different from the people who just can't wait to start murdering their enemies.
You and I have had, as you put it, "very frank" differences of opinion. So I'm going to say that two years ago, you were clearly in a very bad headspace and a lot of what you were posting really did read like someone who was one push away from getting behind the wheel of a truck bomb. You seem to have calmed down a bit since then, or maybe you're just better at moderating how you express yourself.
I, on the other hand, believe “Eights” is seeing Nazis because they’ve trained to see Nazis. They even compared us directly with Stormfront. Not Kiwifarms, not 4chan, not patriots.win, Stormfront.
I started to listen to Behind The Bastards and another anti-real-neo-Nazi podcast, and had to stop because they kept lumping in literally any support for President Trump. It’s disheartening, knowing the best President in my lifetime is treated as either Zaphod Beeblebrox or Adolf Hitler, sometimes both in the same sentence.
More options
Context Copy link
I deleted a paragraph or two, because it seemed a bit too navel-gazey, but you've captured the general thrust.
2020 was not a good year. I'm fortunate that I got back into the Church and got married before it arrived.
You're a good egg, sir.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link