This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Why not? Kerosene too expensive?
Consider that it would be the ethical thing to do.
If you look at the Black American experience from an objective, detached point of view, for some their current situation can be considered to be worse than slavery.
Slavery meant regular exercise, food and healthcare included, and relatively stable lives. They potentially grew up with family or at least some kind of role models around them.
Some of them even graduated to lording over other slaves.
When slavery was officially abolished in Brazil, they just ended up without a job, so the landowners who had just freed them asked them 'so you're looking for a job? How about you come work on my plantation for less than what I was spending on your food, shelter and healthcare?' That's how favelas were created, they all piled up in poor conditions which remain over a century later.
Now they get in huge amounts of debt for college degrees that they may not even be able to complete, they get scammed by banks and car dealerships due to the white flight brought about by their freedom of movement, they murder their own children in unprecedented amount...
Despite all of that, if they still somehow end up being part of the small group that is hard-working, motivated, religious, behaving morally etc, still, they are at a huge disadvantage. They have to compete in the work place with people that are on average a lot smarter, even if they literally come from the 3rd world like Indians and top 0.01% African immigrants.
And on top of that they have to deal with the stereotype of the 13%, despite themselves being part of the 10%(?) 'good ones', they will never make other people comfortable, they will never have a waiter (even black themselves) enthusiastically take their table, etc.
The ethical thing to do is to send them back, for their own good.
As much as I wish history went differently, they are legal US citizens, and have been widely recognized as such for a long time. I'm unwilling to support the government having the power to arbitrarily mass deport its own citizens.
I'd happily support a program to help deport minorities who voluntarily signed up and revoked citizenship, however.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link