This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
$0 after local rebates and fedcreds. The unit was $1100: 12kbtu 22 seer 11 HSPF4 with capacity issues below 17F. Not a high end Mitsubishi hyper-heat. This was fine because of the incredibly mild climate (lowest temperature ever recorded is 13F, 99% temp is mid 20s), wood backup heat, and the grid likely failing anyway during cold snaps. More on that math in the post.
These things are pretty trivial to install, especially if you already have the line set routing and electrical in. Installation ripoffs are ridiculous, and usually you can just DIY and hire the local HVAC guy to pressure test and vac the lines for you to satisfy warranty requirements.
Any new unit is going to have major improvements over a 15yo one. What're your current setup and local temps like? Do you have some complicated 10-head multi-zone thing bumping the quote up, or are they just fucking with richlibs?
Starting Jan 2023 there's going to be a criminal 30% "inflation-reducing" federal tax credit for these things, albeit with some high-income reductions that you'll probably blow right past. Now's a good time to grab one if they make sense for your area.
The $16k quote included the following hardware:
Install and permits were listed as ~$1500. I was trying to find out how much these actually retail for, to see how much I'm being overcharged, but apparently the suppliers hide the prices from end-users for some completely inexplicable reason.
The heat pump I have also works as AC in summer, in case this is relevant for pushing up the price of the device (which I don't think it really should, given that pretty much all that is required to make a heat pump work as AC is a reverse valve).
Oh, you have a ducted central air system, the expense makes more sense now. But the rated performance of that unit is still ridiculously bad for a scroll compressor that should have vapor injection improving its cold weather ability. The damn thing isn't even variable speed, which is an absolutely basic standard now.
Depending on how many rooms you need to heat/cool, see if you can get anyone offering a ductless mini-split install. Compare the specs with, say, a top of the line Mitsubishi MXZ-SM48NAMHZ, which is significantly cheaper with much better performance at twice the btu capacity (you definitely don't need something that big)
If you have a house with rooms rather than a studio apartment, a ductless mini-split doesn't make a lot of sense.
Depending on how many rooms you have, a few units or a multi-head one can. They're so much cheaper and easier to install than a central air system that it takes a lot of tiny conditioned rooms to tip the balance (and you really don't need it in every room)
And a lot of the central air ones are horribly outdated and overpriced, like what they quoted him.
Certainly you need it in every room. Unless there are rooms you don't use when it gets hot. Perhaps you don't need it in a bathroom; OTOH, I have one bathroom which has no A/C duct and it gets quite uncomfortable in the summer. An n-bedroom house will need at least n+1 units, most likely more than that.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link