site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 22, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

7
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Golfing isn't a sport, it is a networking event. You and three other people get to spend four hours together while having a bit of fun and experiencing some emotional ups and downs.

Sailing is largely about being a bunch of guys on a yacht and having fun together.

I was recently invited to a sporting event to which a friend has season tickets to the lounge. My friend doesn't even like sports, he just wants to be in a lounge with people who spend two months average salary to be in a lounge.

That's really overstating it. I play golf by myself because I just like golfing. Tons of people take golf seriously for its own sake.

It’s not a bad game, but it’s mostly a network thing for business people that caught on with aspirational people because rich business people play it. The reason the rich like it is because the high cost of entry (equipment, greens fees, cart rentals) tend to keep plebs away. And because it takes several hours to play a game, you can use it to do business deals in private without having to worry too much about people you don’t want in on those deals finding out about it.

Is this a troll? Golf is one of the most affordable and accessible hobbies you can have, and it's accordingly one of the most popular. Golf clubs are cheap and plentiful on the used market, and public courses aren't expensive. My local courses are like ten bucks to walk 9 on a weekday. And it's still fun even if you aren't any good. If you want an elitist sport there's skiing, which requires more expensive equipment, higher fees for access (and depending on where you live may involve significant travel expenses), and requires a degree of skill to avoid injury. It's hard to convince someone who doesn't ski that they should spend several hundred dollars on a day of falling in the hope that they'll spend several thousand dollars to get to the point where they can make it down a moderately steep slope. Or mountain biking, which is "free" most places but involves eye watering upfront costs.

Is this a troll? Golf is one of the most affordable and accessible hobbies you can have, and it's accordingly one of the most popular.

This is very country-dependent. In the UK, Ireland, and certain Commonwealth countries golf is very affordable, bordering on cheap. In the US it is generally affordable, somewhat less so in the south. But in mainland Europe and Asia golf is a sport for the elite.

Yeah but Golf in like a corporate/social content is likely to be towards the fucking around end of the spectrum.

Also something I've come to appreciate about Golf and Bouldering lately is that they function well in a social sport context for being remarkably self-handicapping. A group of 4 people can all go casually and have a reasonably stimulating experience.