site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 15, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

9
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

There’s periodic discussions of one, particular, item commonly on dress codes.

Sagging. For those not in the know, it’s a (very black coded) fashion in which the pants sag down enough to reveal the undergarments, or these days often basketball shorts worn underneath regular pants. I see plenty of ‘no sagging’ signs at businesses, although not usually high end ones(those people wouldn’t go to such anyways). This is sometimes controversial because it’s black coded, but a) no one wants to see it and b) blacks who object to sagging are reliably of the better sort while whites who engage in it are reliably trailer trash. A few municipalities have carried out campaigns against sagging- Dallas ran a series of billboards with the slogan ‘big mama says- pull ‘em up’ a while back. These campaigns are routinely mocked by people who, themselves, view sagging as uncouth ridiculosity.

What I think gets left out is that clothes send a message and the act of sending a message is one which reinforces the truthfulness thereof. In a certain sense the spread of the sagging fashion convinces people who do it to act more like they have neck tattoos, and jeans and a ball cap convince people to act more salt of the earth, and dressing like a harlot convinces a woman to act more like one. All of these statements are controversial because there is a truthfulness to them; our fashion choices are conformity with other people who follow the same fashion choices.