This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I kinda of agree. I don’t have anything against Vance specifically. He in fact may turn out wonderfully. I just don’t know him—at all. He hasn’t had the eye of Sauron on him so I can’t trust him.
It’s why I would’ve preferred RDS. Of course Trump feels (I think really unfairly) that RDS betrayed Trump so was never going to happen.
DeSantis has his strengths, but they were on COVID response and anti-woke. I don't expect him to deport anyone and I don't expect him to stand up to China.
He can stay right where he is, it seems to suit him. Or maybe unseat Rubio and join the Senate.
Covid to me is still a big deal. There needs to be accountability for that. RDS also runs a very competent Florida government.
Also RDS showed he would respond to a hostile media without cowering. No reason to think that would change.
He is a very competent administrator albeit not a very inspiring personality.
Yes, I agree with your points, but they don't tell me that he's going to shut down the border or be tough on China. Those were, are, and forever will be Trump's biggest selling points to me, and many others.
I would be happy with him if I thought he would accomplish those things. I don't, especially when it comes to China.
What on earth makes you think Trump is going to be tough on China? He's not even supporting the TikTok ban.
And why should he?
In many respects, the TikTok ban seems less like 'tough on China' and more like the Democratic Party trying to assert control of yet another media company, after having spent decades with a partisan-media company alliance that has been used to the detriment of their political opponents.
There's plenty to dislike about social media like Tiktok, but the part that the Democrats were reacting to wasn't actual propaganda-techniques like inflaming election season via hyperbolic claims about political opponents. That was and is just standard Democratic party electioneering. Nor is it about personal data security- that's both old news and not unique. From a more skeptical perspective, the biggest distinguishing factor about TikTok- aside from the anti-PRC electoral hay- was that it was uncontrolled.
Donald Trump has just spent the better part of the last decade under unmitigated information warfare by the controlled or aligned media channels of the Democratic Party. Why would he want to support a Democratic administration assert control/coercion over another social media platform?
It was Trump's policy before it was Biden's.
The origin of the policy came from TikTok censoring content supporting the Hong Kong protests. That made people go "Hey maybe we don't want to let the Chinese government exert information control over our social media" and Trump tried to make them divest through an executive order. That got challenged in court and didn't work so it came back as bipartisan legislation. Until March, Trump supported it too.
Whatever misgivings you might have about other social media platforms, at least they aren't controlled by a hostile foreign government.
And I remember Trump being criticized for his effort then by various parties. What changed wasn't the wisdom of the policy- it was who was in the US government, and when they decided to make an issue of it.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Because the status quo is that our greatest geopolitical adversary controls the media programming that influences a generation of Americans. It's horrifying that we let this state of affairs persist, and the antithesis of America First.
The problem with TikTok isn't that it's foreign-owned trashy media. The issue is that people enjoy trashy media, especially children, and that good parenting is hard. Trashy media, however, doesn't monkey-see/monkey-do indoctrinate children.
Social media has been trash for decades, well before TikTok became a thing. The power of media influence on children is also wildly inflated, to a degree that I expect a great deal more justification than sloganeering, particularly one when one of the first political tenets of American culture is 'you don't get to tell me what I can or cannot read.' I've lived through 'video game makes kids violent' fearmongering, 'religious media makes kids bigots' fearmongering, 'a lack of religious media makes kids immoral' fearmongering, 'problematic themes makes kids into fascists' fearmongering, and who knows how many alternative variations.
I have yet, however, to see any of these voluntary media consumption theories actually pan out in any empirical fashion into any sort of causal relationship. Kids are frequently stupid, and stupid kids will do stupid things in relation to whatever media they have access to. That does not, however, mean that the media is the cause of their stupidity. The sort of idiot child who tries to live-reenact American pro-wrestling isn't going to be a distinguished engineer if his social media feed / TV station shows more engineering-is-cool clips, but he is just as likely to be a Naruto-running fool with his friends.
No, the issue is that China controls the main media source for a generation. I don't even know what to make of the rest of your post, which doesn't even mention China. Were you trying to completely change the subject? It almost seems like a cognitive analogue of face-blindness, where people who really like TikTok mentally short-circuit when presented with the simple fact that China controls the algorithm that decides who sees what content for a big slice of America, and start reciting unrelated talking points.
More options
Context Copy link
What do you think of the high rate of trans associated with social media consumption by kids?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link