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PaperclipPerfector  5mo ago (text post)   1168 thread views

Transnational Thursday for June 20, 2024

Transnational Thursday is a thread for people to discuss international news, foreign policy or international relations history. Feel free as well to drop in with coverage of countries you’re interested in, talk about ongoing dynamics like the wars in Israel or Ukraine, or even just whatever you’re reading.

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2a has all of that barring the Mongolia point; the basic idea of this scenario is that things have escalated far enough for the Chinese deterrent to not be enough to deter the West from forcing PRC and DPRK state extinction, which probably means that PLA/KPA nukes have burned cities. The difference between 1 and 2a is that when the West says "fuck this, we burn a city every hour until you unconditionally surrender and admit an occupying force" and/or simply invades NK en route to Manchuria and Hebei (probably the former, for exactly the same reason as in those clips; invading China would be a bloodbath worse than even Downfall would have been and it's not clear it would even succeed without a countervalue nuclear bombardment to soften them up), Russia says "no, white peace or you burn too" and this actually succeeds at deterring the West.

(To be clear, if I were Putin I'd pick 1. But I'm not Putin, and he's been putting out some signals hinting at 2. If we're unlucky, I guess we'll find out how genuine those signals are.)

I suppose 2a contains multiple possibilities, I was thinking more like “nobody gets nuked, Russia just signs guarantees with China/DPRK”. In 2a, if Russia threatens America into abandoning Taiwan and possibly SK, the PRC controls those new territories, and expands its influence in the South Pacific. But the US and allies aren’t necessarily going to abandon the regions that Russia cares more about at all. It depends on whether losing Taiwan actually causes a true crisis for American identity, and my feeling is it doesn’t. Most Americans don’t care, and a sizeable faction in the security state has been preparing to lose Taiwan since the 1970s; only TSMC temporarily complicated things.

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