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Culture War Roundup for the week of June 10, 2024

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Claims about Trump being a "threat to democracy" aren't specific enough to constitute defamation. Russian agent claims could plausibly be specific enough, but it would come down to specific statements. There's also the issue that public figures such as Trump have to meet a higher standard when proving defamation claims than private citizens like the Sandy Hook parents do.

I'd also add that,. while it seems counterintuitive, wrongful death claims are almost always worth less than cases where the plaintiff is living, even when the plaintiff is in decent shape. Your hypothetical of an assassination is geared toward rock bottom damages because the relatively minimal amount of pain and suffering combined with the inability of the plaintiff to testify about that pain and suffering means you're not getting much in the way of non-economic damages. In most cases like this you'd be looking at maybe a million for the decedent, a couple hundred thousand for the widow, and maybe 50 grand for each of the kids. Maybe up that to three million because it's Trump, but these damages aren't unique and you'd have a hard time justifying more than that. Compare that with unassuming people who suffered an unimaginable loss and then had to contend with years of harassment from people who claimed they were faking it, and they're all available to testify about how much of a nightmare it was and there's little the defense can do on cross to counter. It's not a typical scenario and there aren't any clear guidelines on how to value something like that.

The bigger factor in damages in a hypothetical Trump assassination would be economic damages far in excess of what a normal person has, but this would rest on the testimony of various economic experts who would have to contend with the tendency of his companies to show a net loss for tax purposes. I'm actually working on a case right now where a guy is claiming excessive economic damages based on a speculative business venture that was derailed by the Plaintiff's death, and this shit gets messy.

I don’t think the Sandy Hook parents (or at least some of them) are private—when you speak out nationally you become a public figure.

I do agree there is always a line between opinion and fact statements. For example, if we substitute “threat to democracy” with say “insurrectionist” you’ve gotten closer to statement of fact (Maddow could still argue that what a insurrectionist is is an opinion which is what his area of law is difficult).

And yes, I agree that wrongful death is not as compensatory as living victims. But a billion dollars? Come on. That’s lunacy.

I'd also add that,. while it seems counterintuitive, wrongful death claims are almost always worth less than cases where the plaintiff is living, even when the plaintiff is in decent shape.

I remember Americans being appalled by Chinese drivers who hit a pedestrian, and then made sure run the victim over until they died. It seems Americans were throwing stones, while residing in glass. But it is even worse: the Chinamen are allegedly incentivised to escalate from causing cripplement to murder, while Americans are according to @Rov_Scam, incentivised to escalate from defamation to murder. To me, the beneficial to perpetrator escalation in China is smaller than in the US.

No , there's no incentive. In the auto accident case, running over the person again turns ordinary negligence into an intentional tort which means insurance won't cover any damages and the verdict won't be dischargeable in bankruptcy. In the defamation case, you're talking about the unintended actions of a third party, unless you openly advocate for assassination, in which case defamation doesn't apply. This is all without even mentioning the associated criminal charges.