site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 27, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

10
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

is to attract talented young engineers in spades who will work overtime for sub-market rates.

And how long do you think that's going to last? As a techie, I can tell you techies can indeed accept overtime and submarket wages, but they want to actually build stuff. They want to point at the cool thing everybody is going crazy about, and be able to say "I built that". When they catch on you're dealing with vaporware, they're probably not gonna sign up, and definitely not for a sub-market wage. How long do you think they'll keep signing on when they hear you can get fired from one day to the next, like what's happening at Tesla?

Even at the boring company,

It's another meme. My post was already long so I didn't go into it. The company that wants to revolutionize the world with cheap tunnels makes tunnels that aren't cheap.

Even if most of his ideas fail, it seems like all the talent he has working there should be able to make something worthwhile. It turns out that young engineers really want to work on sci-fi hardware, not manipulating data to sell ads.

Well, another issue he has is that even when he attracts talented people, he doesn't seem to listen to them. Listen to this Twitter space with George Hotz. Hotz sounds like exactly the kind of guy that Elon should hang on to for dear life, but what happened is that Hotz's ideas were ignored (probably for financial reasons), and he left after a few months.

SpaceX specifically might pay off if it can land a big military contract. Get the government to pay him an oversized for providing a service that no one else can do.

I kind of have the idea this might already be happening with Starlink, behind the scenes, but I'm not sure it's enough to keep the lights on in perpetuity. But the whole problem with SpaceX is that it's pretty opaque, so who knows, maybe I'm wrong.