site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 20, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

8
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

If they could kill him without repercussions, they would have already done so, which means they either can't, or doing so would come with costs they're not willing to pay. This might change if he uses nukes, but it's far from clear to me how it would pan out.

Why would they have killed him? It’s not like he’d be replaced by a liberal, there are plenty of (more) competent people in the security state. Generally assassinating foreign heads of state is an extremely poor move. The CIA was only obsessed with it in Castro’s case out of desperation; generally it’s pretty rare.

there are plenty of (more) competent people in the security state

This would require a very improbable configuration:

  • on one hand, Putin has to be competent enough to surround himself with competent people
  • on the other hand, he has to be simultaneously incompetent enough to disregard their advice
  • and all these competent people have to be incredibly patient or accepting to tolerate this configuration

You can point at literally Hitler, but he had several centuries of military tradition to rely on. There was an effective floor on the competence of German army generals. At the same time, all other branches of his security state weren't exactly stellar.

If it was an effective of preventing him from using nukes, they would have done so to prevent or stop the war by now. That killing of leaders doesn't tend to pan out this way is my entire point.

That's the thing, if anything a successful assassination would make it more likely for the next russian leader to use a nuke, and a failed assassination would make it more likely for Putin to use a nuke. On the other hand reserving these tactics for extreme situations makes them less likely.