jkf
19hr ago
Not sure where you're at, but historically I think this was specific to the Mohawk for some reason? Not sure if they're still at it, but they are famous for working on a lot of the original skyscrapers in NYC among other places.
jkf
23hr ago
Utah isn't urban though -- hunting is probably ten minutes away from this guy's house.
Not sure that there's really comparable locations that have colleges in the UK, but I'd guess that a student living in Aberdeen or someplace would be able to get a stalking rifle?
jkf
1d ago
Ah sorry, I did -- like I said originally that number seems extraordinarily low despite given that there were plausibly (despite room for debate ofc) six qualifying incidents involving Trump alone!
jkf
1d ago
Enough evidence, when combined with his membership of the Republicans, to make the "most Westerners who want to shoot Donald Trump are SJWs" heuristic dubious? Yes.
Like I said, I think this is wrong -- you shoot the running right-wing Presidential candidate at a right-wing rally, you are doing left-wing violence unless (as with Hinkley) you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you... just wanted to shoot somebody famous, I guess? Prominent American Nazi Party connections, and Stormfront chat-logs about how Trump is a race-traitor would get you to "right-wing", but "general nutbar who picks a right-wing target" is not "centrist violence".
You've seen what that dataset looks like and how it's used -- the left-wing is not granting the same sort of charity to offenders of ambiguous personal politics who take on left-wing targets.
Anyways, my question was -- how many Trump assassination attempts were even in the data? You say there are only twelve incidents of left-wing violence left after your filter; you could just list them at this point?
jkf
1d ago
Thomas Crooks was not a left-winger, so that assassination attempt wasn't left-wing political violence.
I reject your premise -- you don't need to be a left-winger to do left-wing political violence. If you are trying to kill a (leading) right-wing political candidate, you are doing left-wing violence until proven otherwise. I'm mostly satisfied that Hinkley proved otherwise, although open to the possibility that he was bullshitting about trying to kill Carter -- it's a very unusual case though, and I can't think of any others offhand where somebody just wanted to kill somebody who was President.
Booth probably wouldn't have killed (checks notes) Seymour, and the two that you mention chose not to shoot at Biden.
Crazy though they may have been, they were left-wing and crazy.
jkf
1d ago
I would, again presumptively -- it's certainly possible that somebody might try to shoot a right wing candidate for not being right wing enough or something, but absent some compelling evidence I'd assume that shooting at a political candidate is in itself a pretty good sign that you are on the opposite side of the spectrum.
jkf
1d ago
Crooks (ideology unclear)
TBQH I think that setting up to snipe a presidential candidate at a political rally is in and of itself prima facie an act of political violence -- absent overwhelming evidence to the contrary (as with (probably) Hinkley, for example) I don't see how you can tag it as "IDK, lol -- crazy people amirite?".
jkf
2d ago
These numbers seem a little low -- are recent-ish events included? I mean, if there are only twelve left-wing incidents I'm gonna guess that the two most recent attempts to assassinate a presidential candidate aren't in there? As I recall there were some other less credible but not insignificant attempts against Trump during his first term as well -- depending on your criteria I think you could get to half a dozen incidents of attempted violence against Trump alone!
jkf
2d ago
He [Fuentes] is an actual thinker,
I think we're done here, lol -- are you serious?
jkf
2d ago
There was an early twitter-person of interest who is a trans and seemed to have posted with advance knowledge of the shooting how much he hates Charlie Kirk and how "something big" would be happening at the event -- Omar-something is the handle?
It would not be very surprising if this turned out to be the roommate/girlfriend as well -- although FOAF is also possible.
jkf
2d ago
It makes me wonder if they'd heard as little about him as I had, and are simply regurgitating the talking points they heard other leftists say after his death, essentially as a mechanism for virtue signaling.
Bingo -- I'm in Canada, Extremely Online, and at least 99th percentile in 'knows about US CW' -- had never heard of the guy. So when my normie friends are talking about what an extremist he was, it's not an opinion they've formed themselves.
jkf
2d ago
Like Lincoln?
You don't seem to think this assassination is something to be too concerned about -- which is troubling.
jkf
2d ago
Hasn't yet explained why soldiers and police are undeserving of yours!
I told you, I don't pray for anyone -- but if somebody else wants to pray for somebody/thing important to them, I don't shit all over them while they're doing it. Tolerance, it's not a four letter word.
jkf
3d ago
Again refer back to the point about implications being made regarding other victims of other tragedies if you elevate someone over them in a place like Congress.
Refer back to my last two posts in which I'm suggesting that nobody would likely have a problem with praying for more people in Congress -- which would mean that there would no longer be any special treatment. The dems should just start praying, if it bothers them so much.
Why does an officer who died protecting our society from an antivax shooter not deserving of the same response? Why are members of the military not honorable enough when they die for a public prayer in Congress?
I don't really pray for people myself, but, like -- sure! Pray for those guys too!
jkf
3d ago
Kind of the same way about half of men's fashion starts with elite units in the military, then regular infantry units adopt the look from the elite units, then veterans continue to wear it as a symbol of service, then it just runs into civilian use.
It is what it is, y'know?
jkf
3d ago
Sometime after you have a revolution and win, usually -- I can't think of any offhand in the (quite murderey) history of American politics, at any rate.
Do you have any examples of actual assassins to whom history has been kind that you'd like to discuss? Even Brutus et al don't get very good P.R. these days.
jkf
3d ago
How many people have actually emigrated from the US following the elections of President Trump, for both of which I remember widespread threats of emigration?
I know one family quite well that has just done so (at significant cost), explicitly for the reason of trans stuff vis a vis Trump. (sad story around the son/daughter)
I question their judgement in that regard, but it might turn out to be a good decision for other reasons.
jkf
3d ago
Where's the prayer for the high school students shot by a neonazi a few days ago?
That's the neat thing about praying -- you can pray for whomever you want!
If the Demcritters had asked for a prayer for those people, do you think the Repcritters would have shouted them down?
jkf
3d ago
Maybe the Democrats should start having prayer sessions for people involved in incidents that they think should be elevated then, instead of shitting all over other people's tragedies?
jkf
4d ago
Let's approach this in good faith, is it possible they shot it down because attempts for prayers don't happen with other victims of gun violence?
Whatever the reasons that the Republicans of Congress have for not praying after other deaths, shouting people down while they are trying to pray seems awfully uncouth, at the very least?
I'd go so far as to say Just Not Done -- I don't personally pray over things, but if somebody wants to say Grace at dinner, I do bow my head and say Amen -- where are their damn manners?
jkf
4d ago
He was actively involved in political lobbying, funding, and trying to get laws passed.
I don't think the last one is true, and anyways "political lobbyists not on your team" is a much broader class than I'm comfortable opening the season on...
What about religious stuff, gun stuff, free speech stuff, tax stuff.
I don't think assassination is a good response for people advocating changes to those laws either, no.
jkf
4d ago
For example if I give speech that: "Gay-ness is an abomination before the eyes of God and we should not allow it in our government or our society" Am I inflicting violence? By your definition I am not, nothing I say is legally able to be restricted as I am not directly threatening anyone. However, say I do get this law to pass, now some faceless bureaucrat is going to punish any gay person they find because they are illegal, and they are going to do so with the full might on the state. Its back to stoning, conversion torture, or throwing the gays off roof tops. By my definition I have advocated for those policies, I have advocated for violence. So I think your definition is naive in the extreme.
So do you think that politicians that advocate for increased speed limits (= more highway deaths) are fair game for assassination? Or is it just the gay stuff?
(Kind of irrelevant since Kirk was explicitly not a politician -- so the chances of him getting elected and passing a gulags for gays law were zero -- so the ad absurdum of your position is that it would be OK to shoot some guy mouthing off in a bar about how much he hates gays -- which actually is kind of what's worrying to normiecons about this particular rationalization)
jkf
4d ago
What I'd consider most likely is that his views don't map cleanly to either of the Democrat nor Republican parties. (many such cases!)
The anti-abortion theory for his motive seems strongest, although I have some concerns -- but running with that for now -- does being anti-abortion in itself make one a right winger? It's certainly possible that he thinks Trump is fascist as well, which is more of a left-wing thing and would explain the fliers.
Is an anti-abortion pro-trans socialist left, or right wing? What if he also hates Israel? Or what if he's pro-choice, but loves the 2A and hates commies?
The disconnect here is coming from your apparent need to assign coherent political beliefs to this guy moreso than however the broad right/left is responding to these events. (which seems very different regardless of the political valence of the shooters; I certainly don't recall anybody at all, left or right, celebrating the Minnesota murderer)
Dammit, I was really hoping he was merging the car and robot product lines!
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