DirtyWaterHotDog
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User ID: 625
It's not so much that non-tech people are bad for games. But that their utter dominance means tech nerds rarely get their voices out.
When doctors & lawyers take on secondary leadership roles, they don't turn into narrow minded autists. They learn the ropes of their new role, and apply those to their profession. Tech people should be able to do this too.
A company must have at least one of - love for the product, love for the tech or love for the user's identity. The counter to that is love for the money, love for the optics & love for the media. The nerds are most likely to have love for the tech, love for the user (because they're gamers themselves) and love for the product (because they want to make good games).
MBA types usually love the latter. But, media, optics and money are downstream from success. You can game media + optics and temporarily identify a money extraction strategy. If the MBAs don't play the games, don't care about the tech and don't identify as a the user (a gamer), then they'll inevitably crash and burn. In the woke era, many video game art-people hated gamers & gaming, and were using it as a way to tell their own woke story. This doesn't work. GTA was the Housers' baby. They may not write code, but they surely loved the product.
Andrew Wilson
Wilson definitely revolutionized the monetization of gaming as EA CEO. It's not to say that people like him shouldn't be hired or given important roles. But the CEO is the lifeblood of a company. Give bean counters the reigns, and they destroy the whole company for better quarterly results. Ballmer is the classic example.
The counter to this is Google and Facebook. Susan Wojcicki and Sheryl Sandberg turned them into the world's richest companies. But, because the CEOs were technical, the focus of the company remained technical. Even Tim Cook's peak MBA personality (in the best way possible) was balanced by Ive & Craig as two people who loved the product. It's cliche to say you need a balance. But, you need a balance. For instance, look at the EA board. 2/11 people have technical backgrounds (2 CTOs). One of them is a forever program manager without game-dev experience and another is a head of security, who while technical, has nothing to do with game development. This is the lopsidedness I'm talking about. 0/11 people are hard core game dudes.
don’t have the MBAs? You get SAP
I guess I'm in the Bay Area where technical people are fiercely business focused. I can't relate to the SAP situation
Say what you want about Elon, but he quickly reaches a 201 level technical knowledge in the companies he runs. Your CEO doesn't need to be an expert. But they need to be good enough to smell bullshit when it stares them in the face. Listen to Elon's reasoning about major strategic decisions. It is simple first principles reasoning on top of the core technical primitives of his company. (and I don't even like the guy).
If you think game devs & video game designers sit in a room together, then you're dead wrong. Devs are the exploited labor. If devs were the problem, then indie games would have been an even bigger woke fest. That opposite is true.
The problem is lack of cartelization. Or : "Tech dudes are pussies".
Here is the day to day in the life of a developer:
- Report your progress to your VP who decides if you get promoted. MBA.
- Report your progress to a product PMs who decides what needs to get done. MBA.
- Build the software to the exacts design created for you. BA Painting.
- Submit legal review to the legal team who decide if you're infringing on external IP. Lawyer.
- Rinse and repeat
They have no agency.
Have you ever worked in a law firm ? The partners, managers, associates....all lawyers. Everyone else reports up to them. Hospitals : Admins, Head of departments, Regulators.... all doctors. Everyone else (nurses, insurance, etc) must report to or work with them. Same is true for heavy engineering or any industry that needs deep expertise.
Tech prides itself in being anti-credential. But in the process, it has become anti-expertise. When the door is open for everyone, the politically savvy are going to run rounds around the meek devs.
The problem started with Steve Jobs. Steve portrayed himself as the cool 'designer' who figured out how to take socially inept coders and transform the world with it. This set the narrative for the tech industry as it exists today. It is exacerbated when a startup CEO sees massive growth, and must hire people to 'manage' all the growth. Rather than promoting socially competent senior devs, they hire 'ready made' MBAs. This sets up empire-building MBA culture in the entire middle management (VP - Director) band.
Tech guys created an industry, and MBA types stepped in to make all the money from it. MBAs understand all products as a supply chain. Create more, create faster and more time pressure. Ofc, that's a terrible combination for anything that needs the slightest bit of expertise. So, that's how you get the modern game dev industry.
To be direct:
- Arts grads (writers, designers, directors) come up with woke stories
- MBA CEOs follow the money & NYT. NYT tells them more woke. Money tells them more Fortnite.
- Tech see major issues. But, are pussies so they build what they're told at insane time pressue
- Thing doesn't get made in time because in any high-skill job - more time pressure is worse quality is broken game
- Deadlines keep slipping for reasons any dev could have explained. But to MBAs, whippings must continue until morale improves
- Devs keep getting abused
- Game releases as a broken unplayable mess
- Consumers give shit reviews. IGN says 10/10 because video game journalism also isn't run by gamers or devs.
- Art grads and MBA CEOs have never played a video game in their life. So they don't know the video game is shit. IGN must be right. Gamers are sexist.
- MBA CEO says numbers must go up. So, burn all good will by overselling cosmetics exploiting gambling whales.
- Shit game but breaks even. Convenient explanation so board-of-directors doesn't fire MBA CEO.
- CEO gets bonus. Art team gets credit. Dev team gets fired. (cost cutting measure to show good quarter)
- 2024, good will runs out, gamers out of touch with companies. Customer rebels. No sales.
- -> WE ARE HERE
All the recently successful game companies are run by hardcore tech dudes. Epic and Roblox are obviously having a moment minting money. Both their CEOs were hard core tech dudes who built the core tech that underlies their companies. The 2 games that recovered from shambolic launches (No man's sky, Cyberpunk) are both run by hardcore tech people.
When looking for tech people running game studios, I found this quote from the founder of No Man's sky's studio.
My degree was straight Computer Science which generally frowned on anything games related
Tells you everything you need to know about Gaming as an industry.
Oh yeah, the hiring bar for twitter was still the same as other FANG companies. So, the employees (at least non-DEI programmers) were definitely competent. But it had insane redtape. My friend complained about the amount of redtape at twitter after leaving a team working on highly-sensitive data at Microsoft. So that's saying something.
Products like what?
They never saw the light of day. Most products created at big-tech die before they get too far. Google is infamous for this. But, it's an issue at other FAANGs too.
I'm going against this advice, albeit temporarily. The counter advice is -
you can only prioritize 1 hard thing at a time.
In 2024, I took the 'just do it' advice. I wanted to start a startup asap. I began moonlighting. Built decks, figma walkthroughs, demos, talked to customers. But, all I have to show for it is a YC reject. I lost my cofounder (still my best friend) when he decided to pursue family goals instead. I couldn't do the startup justice while juggling another taxing job. I burnt the candle at both ends, and ended the year with a bad health scare.
I should've 'set myself up for success'. But the desperation to move at all costs put me on the back foot. I still want to start the startup, but I'm now going to do it by going back the basics.
2025, I'm taking a chill stop gap job. I want to take my time evaluating the right cofounder, getting health sorted so I can do a startup long-term and proposing my GF so my long term relationships are solid. It seems like a detour, but I'm hoping it'll make the start up doable the next time I try.
In your 30s, cherish each moment with your parents.
Especially true for immigrants. I visit my family annually. If my dad lives till a ripe old age of 80, then I'll only meet him 20 more times.
Pretty much everybody who knew anything about anything predicted Twitter will fail catastrophically very soon after
Did they ?
Twitter was well known for the being the most do-nothing company in big tech for some time before 2022. My friend (deliberately) joined there in 2021, and did zero work. I mean it. He wanted to start a startup, so he he built his own product full time and free-loaded as a Twitter employee. Yes, he likely would've been laid off even without Elon's interference, but any other org would've kicked him out within the first 2 months.
Twitter at it's first user peak (around 2015) had 3500 employees. In 2022, It had 7500 without any additional user acquisition. In 2024, it has 2800. Twitter was a bloated company in dire need of layoffs. Twitter was totally fine in 2015, and it's only down 20% employees from that period. Twitter's work life balance is well known to have gone to shit. If every employee is working 20% more time, the effective hours worked haven't changed much.
A lot of twitter projects were 'growth projects'. They were trying to expand to other markets, build new products and worked on optimization. All of these people got fired. Some deserved it, but many were already net-positives for the company from a revenue standpoint. Eg: 2% code improvement = $2 million saved for $400k spent on an engineer. That sort of thing.
Elon has separated the AI org out of twitter. XAI already has 100 employees, and will quickly scale up to a few hundred. It may not be counted as part of twitter, but pre-elon twitter was trying to do exactly this under their cortex [1] org.
I'm confident the allegations have legs. I'm just surprised that a foreign entity breaking foreign laws can be prosecuted in the US.
South Asia is super corrupt
You can't be a massive company in India, without massive bribery. Wonder why Adani is being specially targeted. Surely this kind of massive corruption is the norm in much of Africa & South Asia.
Under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA), it is unlawful for a U.S. person or company to offer, pay, or promise to pay money or anything of value to any foreign official for the purpose of obtaining or retaining business.
The FCPA also covers foreign persons or companies that commit acts in furtherance of such bribery in the territory of the United States, as well as U.S. or foreign public companies listed on stock exchanges in the United States or which are required to file periodic reports with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.
Also covered by the FCPA is the authorization of any money, offer, gift, or promise authorizing the giving of anything of value to any person while knowing that all or a portion of it will be offered, given, or promised—directly or indirectly—to any foreign official for the purposes of assisting the U.S. person or company in obtaining or retaining business.
Adani group is run by Indian nationals, most of their assets are in India and they're listed on an Indian stock exchange (BSE). Still a little confused how it adds up to crime in the US.
So, American investors were victims of fraud because Adanis claimed that their business was above ground in investment rounds. Then used American investment dollars for bribes. That is a crime in the US ?
Do DOJ cases have anything to do with the outgoing Biden administration ? Or does it operate independently ? Modi is close to Trump, and I wonder if this is petty vindictiveness. I ask because a lot of recent anti-tech action and Ukraine military allocations seem to be angry 'fuck yous' from the out going administration.
Assuming you're taking a shower. In the shower.....
If no shower, changing clothes without flashing is a standard skill. Just need a towel.
If no towel. I'm fine seeing butt cheeks in my peripheral vision for a couple of seconds. But, don't stand there with your dick hanging out for ages. Get it done.
My eyes are burning. It's so graphic.
To what extent does whether or not the deal was good for the US depend on political positioning
The fullest extent possible.
A person's support for JCPOA depends on how they reason about America's unipolar superpower status. Ie. Is Pax Americana enforced primarily by carrot or stick ?
Stick Believer:
- America became an economic behemoth through incomparable labor productivity.
- Its commensurate military spend keeps every nation scared. So no sane country dares stir up the hornets nest.
- Any country insane enough to believe otherwise faces the full might of American economic sanctions and military intervention.
- The US beats these enemies down into submission, until they pick a subservient leader that bends the knee.
- The US doesn't need anyone. As long as every other country is isolationist too, the US will win in a straight battle of brain or brawn.
Carrot Believer:
- America was best positioned to leap-frog every nation post-WW2. It made good decisions, and ended up far ahead of everyone else
- America maintains a moderate lead, but the conditions aren't as favorable as post-WW2
- The free-market capitalist world created by the US is the most benevolent arrangement offered by any global superpower.
- Join us and you will flourish. Hell, America may give you a little push to bring you up to speed.
- America is confident in its own labor productivity. Pair that with consistent import of top talent & reserve currency status. The 3 will keep US rich forever.
Ideally, the carrot and the stick work together. But, they've increasingly divorced themselves from the other.
JCPOA was a carrot solution for a country that hadn't given into the stick since the 1990s. By 2016, the US had tried the stick with the whole middle east. Initial successes turned into embarrassing failures as these forever wars dragged on. At face value, JCPOA sounds like a good idea. But, the aforementioned divorce meant that America implements both the carrot and stick with a degree of naive optimism.
was it bad enough that withdrawing from it was a net positive for the US?
Yes, withdrawing was the correct solution.
Naive pro-stick optimism leads to forever wars, a drain on the economy, thorough destruction of the victim and development of perpetual hatred towards America. It's squalor but never a threat. On the other hand, Naive pro-carrot optimism is exploited by bad actors to turn themselves into credible threats towards the US. Pakistan exploited America's (and IMF's) naivety for decades, only to become the home for every one of America's most wanted. Obama was smart enough to withdraw support for Pakistan in his time, but chose wrong on Iran.
Now here's the thing. Iranians are scary smart. Iran is a civilizational state with real history. Its diplomats are among the world's best wordcels socialized to western-elite culture. This coaxes democrats into a false sense of security. Surely, these people (white & cultured) can be brought into Pax America without much friction.
Dead wrong ! The clergy hold a strong grip on Iran's power structures. Leadership of the global shia-aligned militia & (credible threat to) Israel are fundamental to maintaining that control. Against an increasingly militarized Israel, having nuclear weapons would've been an essential component of the clergy's politics.
Also, unlike Pakistan or Myanmar, Iran isn't a failed state. The lives of citizens aren't bad enough to trigger internal revolution or military coups. This means that a stick wasn't yet a 'last nail in the coffin'. On the other hand, unlike North Korea or Venezuela, this is a well-fed civilized society. So, if culture itself shifts then a peaceful transfer of power is a possible outcome. What does opening up to the US get you ? Liberalization and further power transfer to Tehran liberals ? Why would the clergy want that ?
The stick (withdrawing JCPOA and replacing it with crippling sanctions) was the right solution. You do not negotiate with a natural adversary. Especially when they're better talkers (liars) than you.
Post-2016, a bunch of (unforeseen?) geopolitical changes have vindicated the pro-stick faction. In 2016, Iran looked like a stable and non-radical middle-eastern Muslim nation. The rest of the middle east was rubble, mid-arab-spring or chain sawing journalists for sport. Yeah they hated Israel, but who in the middle east didn't. If anything, the shias were moderate.
Since then, 3 big changes happened:
- Saudi Arabia's radical liberal shift has given the US the stable liberalization Islamic (not Islamist) nation it was looking for. So, Iran matters less.
- Sunni Govt. hostility towards the West & Israel died down (Egypt, Saudi, Turkey), and Shia hostility picked up. The clergy are now further shoehorned into anti anti-America, anti-Israel position. There is no way Iran could've honestly engaged with JCPOA.
- Post Oct 8th, Israel thoroughly dismantled Iran's Shia militia network. For Iran today, there isn't much global Shia leadership left to perform. This further weakens the Clergy's hold. It won't break the camel's back just yet. But, Khomeini could drop dead any day now, and that might just do it.
JCPOA withdrawl would have been a slam dunk, but geopolitical changes outside the middle east ruined it.
IMO, all American international policy should be structured towards counter balancing China. America has utterly failed here. The whiplash between Trump & Biden has given China space to plant its flag as an equal alternative to the US rather than a #2.
Trump alienated Europe, driving it away from the US. Then Biden kicked Russia out of all global markets. America's allies supposedly change based on who is elected. America's international policy uncertainty has allowed China to start filling in where the US has appeared flaky.
The Iran-Russia-China nexus has materialized outside America's sanctionable world. Europe, India and Africa have settled into neutral/opportunist policies instead of strongly aligning themselves to a temperamental USA. This means Chinese products (electronics, cars, software) are now competing directly with western offerings. Guess what, China's winning.
The US is still substantially ahead at #1, but their lead is fast crumbling. For now, USD as reserve currency is safe, as China failed to make Yuan happen. China's population bomb is about to explode and they fumbled their leading position in AI due to intense anti-Taiwan antagonism. See how these are all Chinese mistakes, not US wins.
That's the big question. How long can the USA keep banking on their enemies making unforced errors ?
Speaker of the House Mike Johnson has said that the policy of the House is that women's restrooms are for women, and men's restrooms are for men
Why is this such an issue? Restrooms have stalls. I couldn't tell what gender was in one if I tried.
I hear that women tend to change & reveal more skin in women's locker rooms. In men's restrooms, we pretty much do their business and leave. From that perspective, the men's locker room is more 'gender neutral'.
Yes, it was a woke rallying-cry. But in 2024, it's become a tier-1 losing issue.
I've seen several prominent-ish democrat spokespeople openly blame transgender people for the 2024 presidential loss.
AOC is the democrat's weathervane. She's scarily opportunist and makes radical position changes right before a movement runs out of gas. She broke rank with the squad on Israel right before the campus protests turned ugly. She recently removed pronouns from her twitter bio. It's Joever.
As for people being naked in locker rooms, I'd be happy to see the practice die out. Trans people or not. I don't wanna be looking at random dick and balls. It's the old men who're the worst. Dude, don't spread your legs on the bench to clean your saggy balls, and what the fuck's up with being naked while having socks on !! Please No !
Best case outcome = Bluesky becomes a Tumblr replacement rather a twitter replacement.
Erstwhile twitter was louder, but boring. Tumblr was where the real stuff was cooked. Autistic wokes have been homeless since Tumblr collapsed, Twitter got taken over, Reels are brain-rotten (it's great) and tiktok has normiefied.
Worst case outcome = It's turns into a threads style bot-o-calypse.
I created an account to verify what you said. Damn it's bad. I avoided politics as a point of interest. I followed we mens wear guy. Still, it was all vacuous nonsense. /r/politics tier. As of now, it's surely headed towards bot-o-calypse.
Where did all the funny liberals go? There were plenty of them on pre-Trump Reddit. Say what you want, but 4chan autistic trans degenerates were funny as fuck too. Tumblr was good shit. Surely all these furries, twinks, trans girls etc. must be around somewhere. Hell, just the wierd porn artists (very left-tumblr coded) created enough engagement for 1 social platform just on their own.
Wonder if they all just grew up, and the woke-censorship era destroyed the pipeline for new degenerates to replace them. Maybe they're deep on Tiktok somewhere.
Therapy is inherently opinionated. I can't see an LLM offering any deep insights because deep insights are sharp and cutting. LLMs are soft.
But, They are good for Reddit tier sanity checks. "My parents used to beat me within an inch of my life. Is that abuse?"; Yeah, an LLM will help with that. But so will Reddit. LLMs can be especially useful here if it is too embarrassing to post even as an Anon.
Overall, It serves as a great 'intake specialist' and friend. Not so much therapist. Great resouce for intial direction and to riff off. Emotional or otherwise.
I wouldnt trust it past that point.
People hurt themselves with cars, knives, and guns all the time but we allow people to buy those in part because cars, knives, and guns are useful
Exactly, this is a bad idea.
Knives are safe enough, but guns and cars can lead to unintentional harm for both the user and onlookers. They should be regulated.
There can be 3 tiers: over-the-counter (free for all), needs based and testing based.
Pepper ball guns, tazers, and lowest caliber pistols can be over-the-counter. Wilderness communities can get needs-based allocation for larger guns. And hobbyists would have to take demanding tests to qualify for the wider selection.
Cars would come with speed limiters (80mph), limited acceleration (0-60mph 5 secs) and sales be limited to low-ground clearance vehicles of limited size. Tall vehicles like pickup trucks would be approved for those who need them. And those that want to go faster, must qualify for harder driving tests.
It seems excessive, but if you look at road & gun deaths in the US and it makes sense.
Third - you can take a blond hottie out of fox news, but you can never take fox news out of her
Megyn Kelly has done well to beat the 'blondes age badly' stereotype. Good for her.
Korean journalists - especially ones who know enough English to write for foreign journals like CNN and the NYT - are largely drawn from those upper-class women who went through college in the humanities and were radicalized on third-wave feminism.
Korean friend points out, Korean journalists frequently cite foreign (CNN, NYT, etc) articles about Korean gender wars to assert that these things are real, without thinking about the filter effect and the fact that the foreign journalists' friends are all upper-class English-speaking Koreans (i.e. filtered for feminists).
The resemblance to urban Indians is uncanny. Almost beat for beat.
- Dads worked insanely hard to give kids a good life. Absent from home.
- Moms over worked at home and ignored. Kids perceive dad as evil.
- Women enter workforce en masse and start outperforming men because of affirmative action and strong preference for women in schooling.
- Cities are bonkers expensive (Mumbai is more expensive per-sqft than SF)
- Women enter liberal arts, and import western 3rd wave feminism whole sale
- These women run all western MSM-aligned and portray men as trash
- Indian men say fuck-this and live with their bros. Women ain't shit.
- Eventually, 30+ men are married off to 30+ women in arranged marriages. Both lack co-ed socialization and have knee-jerk dislike for the other.
- Divorce rates go through the roof.... (we are here right now)
Thankfully, there are a few main differences:
- India is still poor. So wages haven't stagnated. There is still hope among men that their lives can be better than their parents. Optimism keeps defeatist incel-adjacent ideas sweeping the culture. (still, lots of Indian incels)
- Indians are more outspoken. The culture is not as suffocatingly conformist as East Asia.
- New cities are being built. So, while Delhi & Mumbai have become unaffordable, couples are moving to Hyd, Bangalore, Gurgaon, etc.
- The majority is still rural. So, 3rd wave feminists haven't been able to quite takeover the culture like SK.
- Lastly, other Indians speak English too. So, the voices of dissent are just as loud, even if western MSM won't platform them.
(Note: I am talking about upper middle class urban culture. Rural & Poor India is a very different world)
they do not expect sex to be enjoyable
I doubt that. Pagans have written books and created monuments to enjoyable sex.
essentially maidservants for their husbands' families
Nuclear families are the primary cause for this going away. England was admittedly the earliest nuclear society, and avoided this problem all together.
It's an underdiscussed aspect of single-core mega-urban countries like SK. More than half the country lives within commute distance of Seoul. So you can't build physical distance between you and the in-laws. Being a larger and distributed country helps mitigate this problem.
They don't really expect their husbands to love or even like them
Can't compare across different historic economic settings. But, women must be given opportunities. Opportunities to work, to choose their spouse, to leave their spouse, to choose a profession.
You don't have to imagine the scenario. That's how all of VC works.
Know-nothing angel investors will fund your pre-seed for 20% of your company. The best angel investors give you their money and fuck off. If you become a billionaire one day, that's exactly what you owe them. It's a standard contract. Similarly, marriage is the most common signed contract. One takes the lead on career, one takes the lead at home. If something goes wrong, we split ways 50-50. Bezos signed this contract, and had to pay out accordingly.
Both VC and Marriage, free you to take risks without devastating your life if you fail. It may not look like it, but Scott McKenzie invested in Jeff, and got paid for placing her faith in him when he was nobody.
How much of a debt do I owe the person who lent me their charger?
Did you sign a contract ?
Those Punjabis don't leave India.
Punjab used to be India's wealthiest state in the 80s, thanks for a booming agriculture sector. Then, they inflicted suicidally bad policy and a separatist insurgency onto themselves. Since then, Punjab hasn't recovered.
A minority that owns a lot of land, lives like kings back home. But Punjab never industrialized. So, small farms had no value and small farmers continued struggling. In contrast, the neighboring state of Haryana saw rapid urbanization, and small farmers there became mini-millionaires overnight. Haryanvis are culturally Punjabi, and sometimes identify as Punjabi in global circles.
When Indians talk about Punjabis, we mean the residents of the Indian state of Punjab. For comparison, Haryana is 5% Sikh, while Punjab is 60% Sikh. But, a global audience may not make that distinction.
Much of this racism comes from Indians themselves though. They often don't like Indians from certain parts of India or from certain castes. Many think we're letting in too many or the wrong kinds. There seems to be a lot of conflict between different groups.
Yes, but it has to do with 'class' more than 'caste' or 'regionalism'. You've correctly observed that there are 2 different clusters of Indian immigrants.
The upper-middle class of India slogs their ass off to get into real Canadian universities and qualify for real jobs. These people come from around the country. This is your standard meritocratic group, a high HDI cluster. Then, a sub-section of no-skilled youths are practically trafficked into Canada by exploiting every loop hole imaginable. These people can't speak English, don't have jobs when they arrive here and live in squalor. This subsection primarily hails from Punjab. This is low HDI cluster.
The high HDI cluster hates the low HDI cluster.
Canadian visa abuse is an open-secret in India. It's not just the high HDI immigrant cluster who shit on these people. The whole country does.
Damn, Post partum is rough. So easy for it to sneak in.
We humans really aren't made for nuclear existence huh. Can't imagine how women do it without a more traditionally-sized community.
Yeah. Nothing wrong with the Hare Krishnas from a strictly scriptural standpoint. It's their fervent expression of it & proselytization that creeps Indians out. Both feel alien to a native Indian.
It's because Indians have 2 pathways to come to the USA.
-
high tier undergrad -> Masters -> FANG-ish job -> coastal T1 city -> upper middle / lower rich class dom.
-
low tier undergrad -> Sweat shop consultancy-> H1b lottery spam -> T2/T3 American city -> temporary life of squalor to save a few dollars
The strong selection effects mean that your experience with an Indian in the US is likely to either either be quite positive (cracked FANG engineers) or quite negative (DGAF sweat shop workers).
Will the baby latch, will the latch hold, how to avoid painful latching, how to deal with chafing,
Doesn't pumping solve all 4 problems ?
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Got nothing productive to say....but damn small world.
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