Felagund
4d ago
It's funny to me that Moldbug opposes the Reformation and the puritans, whereas Carlyle was a fan of them both. I haven't read enough of either to have opinions on why that might be, given Moldbug's high esteem for Carlyle, but it's funny.
Felagund
4d ago
The Protestants would also affirm that their church predates the codification and writing of the scriptures (at least of the new testament).
The Augsburg confession was written by Melanchthon. Edit: Luther did play a role in its drafting.
But this is pretty close to being true, at least, if you're construing sola scriptura as talking about use of other authorities in general, rather than whether there exist other final authorities accessible to the modern church.
Felagund
4d ago
Why would liberals have to allow this? Locke, for example, absolutely thought the government could punish sexual immorality. I'm not familiar enough with his work to know whether there's any inconsistencies there, but it seems like, as a matter of fact, most liberal societies thought banning that sort of thing was fine.
Felagund
4d ago
The state may absolutely still put that thug to death, or whatever other punishment.
Yes, the hatred is sufficient to merit hell. This is not unusual or weird in Christianity. Essentially everything we do merits hell. We are only saved through Christ's work. If the victim is not united with Christ, then, sure, improperly proportioned hatred for the thug suffices to damn.
Felagund
4d ago
It's pretty normal in Christianity to admit of degrees of guilt. See, for example, when Jesus wishes woe upon Capernaum, saying that it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah than for them. See also how some kings of Israel are praised but caveated, whereas others are outright condemned, because the first class forbid pagan gods but allowed worship of God in the high places, whereas the worse kings allowed pagan worship.
You'll also see some people saying that the sin that's committed has effects on willingness to repent, but I'm not really knowledgeable of that.
Felagund
4d ago
As a Calvinist, it's the case that:
For everyone, if they were to repent, would be saved. Not everyone will in fact repent, but only those whom God predestines.
This isn't unique to the Calvinists, though. You'll see the same thing here among the more predestination-leaning Roman Catholics (like those following Thomas Aquinas) or Lutherans (like Luther or Walther, but not like Gerhard, if I remember correctly).
(Also, the TULIP acronym isn't ideal, especially in that the L is considerably more optional within the Reformed tradition than the other four. But it's a popular characterization, and frequently used by those within.)
Felagund
10d ago
Fair. I imagine offering a good product would probably be a good selling point for an insurance company, but that might not hold up if there's not enough competition (see, especially, if it's provided by workplaces), or if consumers prospectively (rather than looking back) prefer lower prices and better-sounding promises to actually good coverage.
Felagund
11d ago
Does the fact that this is insurance, rather than, say, a drug company make a difference in that?
(I do agree that there are a bunch of ways that our health care system is bad.)
Felagund
11d ago
Liberalism, historically, meant something more like libertarianism (though probably a little less anarcho-capitalist than libertarians will get). It is sometimes still used in that sense. You'll see people calling themselves classical liberals from time to time, and these are pretty much always right-leaning people.
Felagund
11d ago
Look into the old-style Protestant denominations. Not the mainlines, those are all got captured by the liberals, and most of the conservatives fled. And the evangelical megachurches won't have the sturdiness you're looking for. But look at an OPC, URCNA, PCA (though a bit less trad) and several others in the Reformed world, and LCMS or WELS for things in the Lutheran world. There's also ACNAs for anglicans, but my sense is that they're more hit-or-miss. (If you direct message me your area, I could look up some maps and find you some local churches.)
Why? I could get into details of theology, but I don't get the sense that that's currently the sort of thing that you care about. But the institutional Protestant denominations are certainly more American of a thing than e.g. Eastern Orthodoxy, if that matters to you at all. I imagine it's worth looking at, at least.
The publication that James Lindsay hoaxed, American Reformer, is actually pretty great. (See, for example, this recent gem.) You'll probably have trouble finding Protestant churches that are quite as based as American Reformer, but you should certainly be able to find some that are solid, if you know where to look.
I guess my point is, what is a genuine religious revival supposed to look like?
Ideally, nation-scale repentance and belief, that expresses itself in reformation of life. Love of God and neighbor. Zealousness for good works. Piety. Striving to put to death the sin within us.
If you mean to ask whether your turn towards Christianity is legit, well, it sounds like you're not just doing it for the cultural benefits (you think God might exist). There's more to Christianity than the bare fact that God exists, but that's certainly a start.
I do affirm though, that our thoughts would suffice to send us to hell—Jesus is pretty clear, for example, that lusting breaks the law against adultery—but for those in Christ, his death atones for our sins.
Felagund
11d ago
I can consider myself Christian intellectually, but except through a miracle I will never be able to have the true faith that others have, and my little faith will never console me or sustain me against the secular gods that I worship despite myself. So it goes. I can only try to do better for the next generation.
Well, fortunately, if you consider yourself a Christian intellectually, then miracles are possible.
Felagund
11d ago
American Reformer, the publication he went after, is great, and fairly serious (fairly niche, though).
My sense is that there is genuinely some shift towards Christianity. Certainly some of those are only memeing, but not all.
Felagund
11d ago
Why would it be any less than in any other situation? Wouldn't the usual arguments on behalf of capitalism apply here?
Felagund
19d ago
I haven't seen it myself (thankfully), but it looks like people are saying that it's Destiny and we don't know who the other guy is.
Kind of disappointing. Killing off Fuentes' influence woud have been nice, and without something stronger, I don't know that this will be enough.
Felagund
20d ago
Are you really suggesting that, in the example I suggested, you'd have equal crime rates?
Felagund
20d ago
But that's just not true. If we imagine that there's only a 50% chance of getting caught, there'd be a vast different in attempts with a 1 week cap on sentences vs. a 1 year cap on sentences, I'd think?
Felagund
24d ago
Am I remembering correctly that @ZorbaTHut is a dev for video games? If that's right, he might have opinions on the things in this thread.
Felagund
26d ago
Felagund
27d ago
If you want an easy explanation of why they should be told, I know pro-trans activism likes to talk about elevated rates of suicide among people with gender dysphoria/trans people (even though suicide is a social contagion, and we elsewhere try to avoid doing that, but whatever). Do you not think that parents should know that their child is in a group with a vastly higher suicide rate?
Sure, but there's a difference as to what extent God's will is seen as posterior vs. prior to the decision, right?
I know there were big controversies between Jesuits and Dominicans at some point, and the Franciscans had still another position, I believe.
Yes, it does depend upon God giving us a new heart, etc. etc.
Well, not in the same way. It's not a direct action on the part of God; it's the inevitable result of our fallen state barring divine grace.
Sure it does. We're just, in our fallen states, bad agents, at least in the respects relevant in these instances.
This depends pretty heavily on what you mean by free.
Well, I'm not necessarily committed to that. I'd be fine with, for example, direct action by God in determining how quantum states collapse each time. I'm not actually endorsing that position specifically, but I have no problem with it. But sure, I have no problem with a deterministic world, and it is for God's glory. Just don't use determinism as a grounds to minimize it.
Depending on what you mean by "could," sure. But surely you also would agree that conditional on God's knowing that Lily Philips would sleep with 100 men, that would necessarily happen? And not only knowledge, but as part of God's decrees in ordering the world—his will, not just his knowledge? I mean, Molinists would affirm that, not just Thomists, correct?
Are you aware of the Dominican-Jesuit debate? Do things like "physical premotion" mean anything to you? (Note that I am not sufficiently knowledgeable on these myself.) Are you aware that the esteemed Thomas Aquinas is thoroughly on the more strongly predestinarian side of these himself?
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