nopie
21d ago
I always find that if the country has a lot of illegal immigrants, it is always due to deliberate policy of that country.
The USSR had very little illegal immigration or emigration despite a lot of land and sea border. We could laugh about Trump building the wall (that was just an attempt of embezzlement), but if the country is serious, it can guard the border quite well.
The EU has a polity allowing a lot of refugees (in reality economic immigrants) in. It might be a bad policy but most likely dictated by desperate measures to counteract low birth rates. It is all deliberate and the EU has very little undesirable illegal immigrants. They find difficult to get jobs and receive services. Most so called illegals are requesting asylum and in most cases they receive it. Only small part of applicants are refused and deported.
The US is most likely the same situation. Most “illegals” are welcomed but the US does not control illegal employment as strictly as in the EU. That is deliberate as those immigrants have no rights and will work for low wages.
From human rights position that is fundamentally wrong. It is like slavery just with more steps. Now promises to deport them sound good from legal point of view, but expect a lot of protest from businesses who are using their labour.
The correct position would be to legalize most of those workers instead of deporting them. But I don't see democrats, nor republicans being interested in this solution.
And do you think Trump administration would not include those people turned away in their numbers?
But assume you are right. So, instead of spending money trying to deport illegals, you could just not let them in, for a fraction of cost?
Or maybe actually illegal immigrants in the US are net positive financially and not letting them in is not good for the economy?
What is the best policy?
nopie
21d ago
Exactly those things that are currently happening are terrorising. Shooting an innocent woman, stopping vehicles for no reason, arresting a US citizen in underwear in cold weather, registering observers as domestic terrorists... Should I go on?
And not taking any responsibility whatsoever is the worst part. Yes, everybody can make mistakes. Own them. Instead of gaslighting, like in that example “we were looking for a dangerous criminal” who was actually already in the prison.
Catching dangerous criminals including illegal immigrants sometimes is hard but I don't see armed men regularly patrolling the streets in cities to do that. Probably because such demonstration of force is not useful. It is just a waste of good money.
And let's not start with double legal standards where the US authorities are unable to process green card applications in time thus leaving people in limbo. Technically they are illegal and yet one agency will accept their status and the other will send armed men after them. It has no consistency and indicates a dysfunctional country. Obviously, the US is very rich and will never be called dysfunctional but in certain aspects it really is. It is not all or nothing proposal.
nopie
1mo ago
It didn't provide any new info therefore it was done for gasligting knowing that bunch of retarded people will see that recording as supporting their views.
nopie
1mo ago
ICE is not talking about it, in fact, they are actively denying it, blocking investigation and spreading lies.
And Trump, vice-president and other politicians are gaslighting about that.
nopie
1mo ago
If ICE was only deporting illegals, that would be true. But it doesn't seem to be the case. They are seen terrorizing not only legal immigrants but also US citizens. They even shot an innocent lady in Minnesota and decided to cover it up.
Besides Obama deported more illegals for a fraction of the cost. Where is the money going? Probably in terrorizing “brown people”, so that terrorizing part must be more by volume that ICE legal activities.
Thank you. That was exactly my thought. In my formative years I learned English from writings by Indians. I am well aware that many expressions I learned from them are unfortunately archaic or used only in India and not in the standard British or American English. I try to avoid them but it is not always easy in a second (actually my third) language.
nopie
8mo ago
I am sorry, I had seen this usage in some writings and thought that it is a standard English. But I am not a native speaker and make a ton of mistakes in every sentence.
nopie
8mo ago
In such situation the US would indeed just print the money to save itself from bankruptcy causing immense inflation. It will cause worldwide financial crisis. It is possible that the GDP for many countries will fall by 50% or even more.
That will not be good neither for the US, nor the world peace. Possible some other countries will arise more arise more powerful, especially China, Russia or Iran. The countries who have learned to become more resilient due to constant sanctions.
nopie
8mo ago
My view is slightly different. Sometimes debt is good, you would buy a house on mortgage, for example. But the current debt is purely for buying trinkets, not good. The US is also a very strong economy, the best in the world. Some more debt is not going to bankrupt it. However, excess debt can reduce growth. The fact that the US was growing faster than other developed countries, is no reason to limit this potential. Therefore this debt should be eliminated as it would allow the US to grow even faster.
Now, Musk wants more growth. Everything depends on it. It is a long game he is playing, some moves might be wrong, but it all makes sense.
nopie
8mo ago
In all those cases I was totally on Musk's side. Lockdowns were terrible and now even Scott Alexander quotes studies that they didn't do anything, only destroyed economy even more and increased mental problems of people. This is where both democrats and republicans dropped the ball on science.
Elon deserved at least some recognition for EVs.
Elon's transkid? The UK banned puberty blockers for a reason. It turns out that most “transkids” stop being “trans” by reaching adulthood, but if they are given puberty blockers, then it is almost 100% guaranteed that they will continue this transpath. Not good outcome at all and only the most ideology obsessed people cannot see why this is a problem.
The only thing I don't like about Musk is his over promises, for example, selling self-driving cars (was promised to be ready in 2024)? Clearly a fantasy although the idea to develop them is good. Of course, sometimes I don't like his talk (calling some a pedo etc.). But that is not important in the great scheme of things.
nopie
8mo ago
Not true. There have been times when printing money was correct policy, for example, after big crises of 2008.
nopie
8mo ago
Inflate? It doesn't work mathematically. Sorry, you are not making any sense.
nopie
8mo ago
You probably are better with numbers and can provide better estimates. Tyler Cowen has analytical blog post about this issue: https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2025/06/claims-about-debt-and-productivity-growth.html
My understanding is that it is a time to become “fiscally responsible”, i.e., try to cut expenses. The current growth is not enough to stop interest payments to skyrocket.
nopie
8mo ago
Yes. When I hear “fiscally responsible” on news I have no idea what it means. I just tried to offer a better phrasing that could resonate with people. If something wasn't clear, now I have provided interpretation above: https://www.themotte.org/post/2015/culture-war-roundup-for-the-week/332917?context=8#context
To be sure, I was saying how I would act and it would be a similar tantrum like what Elon does. But I am no politician nor a successful man and I don't know if Elon's actions will be ultimately victorious or destructive. The later is more likely. But his track record shows the opposite. Obviously, we don't understand the world well enough to predict the outcome. But from what we know, the world has a potential of unlimited growth. We are in a different era now, the humanity in all of its history was static, with no growth or very little growth over centuries, but then something changed and rapid growth appeared. It started with the industrial revolution and the world has never been the same since.
Musk vs Trump is the new world vs the old one. The new world will win for sure but expect many battles.
What? You interpret what I said in the worst way. What about a different interpretation – the US reduces borrowing. The borrowing is only a small part of the budget which means that by small reduction, let's say 10%, you could even not only stop borrowing but also pay off some of the debt (the numbers are as example only), and in 5 or 10 years, the US has no debt at all or very insignificant one.
As apposed to in 20 years the US debt is 100% or 200% of the GDP and interest payments comprise 20% of the GDP.
nopie
8mo ago
Not staged, it is real.
Obviously, many things said in anger now, can and will be taken back. Don't take them too seriously. But the fight is real.
nopie
8mo ago
To me it seems that if you have to pay 10% on interest payments for the debt, you could easily reduce spending by 10% and not to pay this interest payment and be in the same situation. Obviously, that would cause short term pain but long term benefits.
I personally can easily spend 4-5 years at college and/or training and live frugally to get better job or whatever. Everybody can.
The USSR was a prison, it had to stop people fleeing but it did it quite easily.
People who arrive on beaches could be prevented to cross the sea in the first place. It is not being done because it is a deliberate policy. Countries have contradictory policies that change all the time due to changes in the political power. But a lot of elite that influence all politics are pro-imigration. I am not saying it bad or good but there are many rational arguments that immigration is better than decreasing population.
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