YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
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User ID: 680
This is something I really am learning to hate in other autistic people. They can accept these two premises individually but can't seem to understand what they mean together because they can't observe the phenomenon.
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Humans communicate on two levels: explicitly through stated content, and implicitly through subtext. Additionally subtextual communication is both conscious and nonconscious: tone, inflection, body language, etc. Essentially non-verbal behavioral leakage exists and is positively correlated with strong emotive feelings
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Autistic people suck and recognizing, and conveying subtextual communication. They can't passively observe it, not within how they communicate or how others communicate.
Result: Strong emotionally affective beliefs end up being roughly communicated through non-verbal communication in nonconscious ways. This is obviously very lossy information wise, but when ever has social comms been an exact science, it's all vibes and intuition anyway. If you are autistic you will have a hard time determining what non-verbal comms you are sending out, and may literally be communicating more than you intend.
You seem to have a seriously complicated relationship with women. You blame them for the poor dating environment, you blame them for poor social environments, you think they are less pro-social than men, they can't honor their words vs men. You think the political ecosystem is worse because of women, you think women need to be monitored, controlled, shepherded because they are impulsive children, they lack desirable traits in a partner, they cheat more, their education is socially harmful, it goes on and on. BUT, you also love women, you've staked your entire existential meaning towards something that requires a woman to love you. You are dependent on women for your desired future, for your meaning. Women are simultaneously the villains of your entire world view and the indispensable condition of your personal salvation. (If you would like me to reference all of your posts on these, I absolutely can).
You have women up on a pedestal and simultaneously in a gibbet.
These are strong emotionally affective beliefs, I absolutely think they leak.
You actually remind me of a close friend, he's very similar to you, late millennial, single, has trouble with women, expresses very similar opinions to you on that subject, slightly autistic, slightly conservative (though a militant vegan!) and for the important reference he's crypto-conservative, ie hiding it. He doesn't talk conservative points, doesn't express his power-level, in his opinion nobody should know he's a conservative. But in our friend group it's pretty much an open secret that he's conservative. Why? Because all of his non-verbal communication, and the very few comments he does make. Neurotypical people can intuit it, they talk, they compare notes. You state a strong opinion around him, and you can literally see the right-wing debate bro combination of Charlie Kirk + Sam Harris as gears in his head start spinning up, even though he refrains from engaging. I don't have character references, so yeah maybe you are unimpeachable, but if it's just your opinion on your unimpeachability, well I think you might be unaware of the subtext you are conveying.
That said I think you should try non-party social events in a public place around a shared activity. People flake because they feel the social pressure to say yes and the lack of social consequences for not showing up. I have experienced it when I organized events around social parties in Chicago, it's not gendered. I think an open social activity is more likely to draw new blood. Food for thought.
EDIT: and because I realized I didn't respond to several of your points, I don't think this is solely on you, absolutely there is a trend of social isolation among people these days. But this returns to my pragmatic point: You can be happy or you can be right. Just because there is a trend doesn't mean you are helpless and should just sit back and seethe, you can make changes to your own lifestyle, behavior, beliefs, and if you really place all this existential importance on a family, then you would try to make it happen at any cost. No change would be too much of an ask. Who cares what everyone else is experiencing, you need to look out for your own happiness, your own success, and your own life fulfillment, it's a hard game out there, you just going to quit and whinge because the deck is stacked against you??
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
1d ago
So I read through your original post, I have to say I'm don't really think thats the same thing I had in mind. You are doing house gatherings from an existing BJJ(?) gym community. That gym community doesn't select from a "social"-oriented group, and is already a niche section. There's no way for you to bring in extra people other than manually recruiting from the gym. At the party, is it just a nebulous gathering like most parties? Or are you activity oriented? People tend to flake on nebulous gatherings because its just generic social time.
The difference with what I and my friend did, is that it's oriented around a very specific activity, it is a large gathering (I have 15-30 people showing up), they are public so you get a flux of random new people in, which softens the blow of core group members not showing up.
ABYSMAL gender ratio
Yeah the dance classes can be really hit or miss, 80% of people show up with their partners. BUT the goal is not to date within the class. No, the class goes to clubs/bars doing latin night where there is far more women than men, women who might not be formal dancers but grew up dancing etc, or just want to have a good time. And you are the skilled dancers, because you took that class for months years even, and you have fall back friends to dance with if it's not working out. This burning desire to date and only date at all costs comes across as desperation. You gotta let go of it and just enjoy the moment.
My board game group meets via Meetup, it's a bigger social deduction game, called Blood on the Clocktower. I can have up to 15 people playing. We meet every couple weeks at a consistent interval. People come to play the game, maybe get dinner afterwards, that's it. People find us through Meetup, or friend referrals and while we have flakes since they sign up of their own accord it rather than being socially pressured there's less of it. There's a set time and activity so it's not just another generic socializing party. My current girlfriend came for at least a year before I asked her out, I imagine some people date but I don't really pay attention to it.
zilch NO social pressure on women to actually honor commitments
Dude this isn't just women, these are people, men and women are flaky as adults. The fact that you are grinding the edge on women only comes through. People pick up on social intuitions.
The problem is with them.
There is something deeply ironic about this, it's like a union organizer complaining that nobody wants to show up to the meeting to fight the capitalists.
"The problem is with them!!" he screams, looking at his empty seats, "All those traitorous capitalist scumbags! How dare they not show up to my meeting!"
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
2d ago
Proper disclaimer first: anyone who tells you they have a high success approach in this environment, who doesn’t live in your polity, have your hobbies, is asking you to join a cult, or sell you a subscription to hustlers university…
Solution: form your own community. Legitimately waiting for others to create something so you can come in and consume is why third spaces no longer exist. Too many free loaders. It doesn’t need to give people purpose(like a cult) it needs to be a space that people want join, giving them friends, connections, people to hangout with. Instant social status, you are a leader, you have cred. It’s a ton of work but i think its rewarding.
It’s up to you what community you want to make, but i built mine around social deduction board games. We have a 60/40 gender split, which is functional because it’s not full of sleazeballs only there to date. I pull people off it to play the hard core board games I like. Idk if people in it are dating each other but my current girlfriend of a year did approach me through it.
A close friend in Chicago did something similar with Latin dancing. He doesn’t date within the group but they go out to latin dance clubs and he dates women he meets through there. The women in the group wingwoman him, the other guys show him respect because he organizes it. He recently fumbled a year long relationship for stupid personal reasons but he met her through his dance outings.
Just food for thought, not sure what your hobbies are or where but i see more success from making your own community than waiting to find one.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
3d ago
You’re not talking to a boomer mate, I spent 12 years in the OLD trenches. I know the stats, the sources, the arguments. I’ve made them, I sang that song, and I’m telling you very few of the couples I know, now including me, met online and I hang out with NERDS, where there is no/little stigma.
I literally came here from PPD.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
3d ago
Which bridges and doors are you referring to?
The ones that exist when you are a part of a community. When friends introduce you their partner’s friends, when you meet potential partners in your community, when people in your community vouch for you, when you bring your partner to your community and the women side conversation convey what a catch you are. Basic social things. Nothing reinforces a woman’s mate choice like a community that approves and lauds that choice as a good match.
If nobody is matching up then the obvious answer for you is to plant your feet in the sand and refuse to soften your language… because that will show them!
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
3d ago
As I said two handfuls, ~7-9 ish depending on your definition. I'm not so autistic as to formally poll them, but I have talked about dating, relationships, and I am friends with many of their husbands, I was in their weddings. I know how those husbands think, absolutely they have preferences around tattoos, hair color, and lifestyle fitness, but they married women with similar values. It's not control, its a shared agreement on values. It is also just intuitive. Would you want to date a partner who wants to control how you dress and how your body looks like, who has the final say in all of that, and even worse, it's against your beliefs to run, to divorce, so you are stuck with a controlling partner? Anyone saying yes has a fetish.
To be clear the dichotomy I am suggesting is:
- "I want absolute control and the final say on how my partner looks, how she dresses, what her hairstyle is, what her weight is" (Controlling and abusive)
vs
- I want to marry a partner who has similar values to me in regards to tattoos, modest dress, and lifestyle fitness so we can do physically demanding activities together. (Normal human preferences)
Faceh is expressing the latter but wants it like the former. He should give up his control issues and just converge to believing the later. It would be healthier.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
3d ago
I’m not sure i would ever suggest otherwise, though maybe not in the way you are suggesting.
Liberalism was birthed from the centuries of religious sectarianism in Europe. Christianity is a universalist belief system. All of its offshoots are viciously universalist towards each other. White English Protestants killing White English catholics, Anglicans versus Presbyterian, French Catholics and Huguenots, Anabaptists versus other Protestants, etc. For liberalism critics I challenge you to explain what value differences all these different branches of Christianity have that prevented them from tolerating each other?
Liberalism was the system that developed the equilibrium.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
3d ago
I don't intend to change my mindset, when its everyone else's mindset that sucks.
Cognitive rigidity is a choice. You should get over it. You can be happy or you can be right, which would you prefer?
You might not say it around women you are interested in, but what about friends? Their partners? People talk, I’m not sure about your personal platonic ecosystem but are you really so spoilt for choice that you can afford to burn bridges and close doors of opportunity?
Trad women don’t want to date men who express controlling-abuse red flags, doing so puts them in a worse position. When you explain your thoughts it comes off much more mild, thus its a signaling problem.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
3d ago
This is more of an aside, but it’s tangentially related to signaling problems.
Women who are trad lifestyle oriented are looking for signals that predict convergences to negative outcomes for their specific locality’s. Global red flags are a thing but local, contextual red flags are more tightly watched for. When you talk about control you evoke that local contextual red flag for trad behavior. Even if you never say it out loud those sort of ideas have a way of leaking into social responses that women are far more intuitive at picking up. I’d recommend you change your mindset about around it, let go of your own desires for control and converge to value-basis belief.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
3d ago
Right but that would violate the sanctity of marriage that I am assuming he values. It's a rock and a hard place. I've observed he feels powerless about it. Leading to control issues creating a negative feedback loop. The ironic thing is that this would easily be resolved by just filtering for women that already have a similar outlook/values system. No need for the control if they already agree with and value your opinion.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
3d ago
You are supposed to look for women who value their husbands opinions, and they themselves don't value those things. Then give your opinion, but leave the ultimate decision authority to the individual. The problem is that what you've stated in this comment and the previous comment around "control" aren't really the same thing. This is pretty much the same thing as women who date abusive deadbeats, it's about vetting. You need to vet women for a propensity to do the above, and even if you have this meager dating pool, toss out the ones that would... have some standards.
Authentic choice is the most costly signal of all.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
3d ago
Don't lay this at the feet of liberalism. The problem is several universalist beliefs systems have formed due to liberalism's permissiveness. These universalist beliefs are zero-sum and require their adherents to both proselytize and interfere with other groups values systems. In a vacuum these belief systems are effective at outcompeting "liberalism" in peaceful ways but their main problem is they can't outcompete each other without violence. Liberalism is a stable solution within a particular value substrate that acts as an additive transformation to myriad existing beliefs, requiring them to adopt a particular value base in regards to divergent belief systems around acceptance and non-universality. Merely add that substrate to your beliefs, keep to your own community, and voila problem solved, no violence. However you can outcompete that by being the only universalist game in town. However belief systems exist in a reactive state, so the rise of one universalist belief begets others, which leads us back to the cycle of violence until everyone "rediscovers" the Chesterton's fence of the liberalism substrate.
Why do human's keep returning to universalist beliefs? Because we are dumb tribal simians and the spite and anger we get at targeting outgroups is a drug addiction beyond heroin. We are pretty much fucked as a species, we can't outgrow our firmware, and most of us just want to sit in the trees and hoot about that other group that looks slightly different to us.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
3d ago
I will get a final say in how she dresses and maintains herself.
I know probably two handfuls of couples that engage in trad gender roles, where the man is the provider, both lefties and righties. I think this is probably the biggest dealbreaker I've ever heard. There is a charitable interpretation that is barely acceptable in regards to a joint physically fit lifestyle or jointly modest/religious lifestyle but I think this is going to be a huge constraint for you. People just don't like others having control over their bodies. You are better off looking for values a partner should have that would lead them to converging to your "final say" rather than explicitly trying to exercise the control.
I see this arrangement as utterly fair and equitable for any woman
I'm sure, most people think they are giving folks grand ol deals.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
4d ago
They definitely like to think so. Empirically they are the most money and status oriented at this point. Whether that translates into technical skill is unclear but it probably has some positive correlation.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
6d ago
I’ve been really interested in the idea of community token budgets - as models are more able to do things autonomously, the limiting factor is token cost. I think it’d be cool to replace the Patreon with something that serves as a bucket for AI token cost for site improvements.
I pay for ChatGPT Plus (and somehow seem to have access to 5.6) and almost never hit even half of my token limit. I'd be very willing to donate usage somehow for site improvements or community needs. Idk how people use that many tokens.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
9d ago
Then, iconoclast was completely normal western liberal morality, and the game doesn't punish you for picking those options, so why not pick them?
The Void Shadows DLC takes advantage of the iconoclast naiveté very well. It absolutely punishes you for it, in very hilarious ways. The in-game lore optimal route is probably a mix of dogmatic and iconoclast. I agree that heretic is chaotic evil straight off of the bat, it would have been nicer to have different flavors of evil as well, or a slow build up. I don't think Owlcat's writing is particularly good, but I do appreciate that it doesn't morally railroad you in quite the same way as something like BG3.
I think with the DLCs increasing the number of alignment points that are available, you don't need to go hard down one path to be able to reach the end trees, allowing you to kinda set the pace in your own story a bit more.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
9d ago
you have any idea of how the universe functions
The fun part is you can role play as not knowing. Dogmatic is often the smart way to play but playing as a heretic is enjoyable, and trying to thread the needle on iconoclast between stupid and non-zealot is fun.
I will never forgive Games Workshop for denying us a romance route with the Sisters of Battle
I just want to romance my cog boys. Argenta is whatever.
I did RT then WoTR so that probably colors my opinion. I really hated the army part of WoTR. I think the planet exploration is just a better version of it, and the battles are better. I noticed the rails in both, WOTR just had more "options". I think I also just like the 40k setting more than generic D&D fantasy setting. But I've definitely had some friends with your opinion, I think its just a matter of taste.
Also I like doing character builds more than story which might impact it a bit. I mostly replay to try different compositions and builds.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
9d ago
lol typo.
Playing the new-ish Rogue Trader Trazyn DLC. Owlcat does make a nice CRPG. I'm trying to go for a balanced alignment run where I don't exceed rank 2 in any alignment. They show a mirror universe character with that affliction but I'm not sure its possible with all the colony buildings.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
12d ago
My more experienced friends tell me I should probably just build a new house somewhere else. Apparently the problem I'm having may be a quirk of two small black forest biomes near my house. The game seems to want a bear in each of them at all times, whereas when I go and explore larger black forest biomes bears don't seem very common at all.
I would agree with them, I just got back into valheim, I do not encounter a time consuming amount of bears in the meadows or BF. I'm a bit past those biomes now, but my lumber yard is in a BF biome and I still sail through a BF to get back to my original safe meadows base. Not a lot of bear encounters...
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
12d ago
This is a pretty uncharitable take accusing someone else of an uncharitable take. "I want my neighbors to look and act like me" comes off as I want my neighbors to be my same race, and socioeconomic status, go to the same church, and believe in the same creeds as me. That is conformist, extreme might be hyperbole but it is undoubtedly a conformist opinion on the level that conservative often decry when assigned by outside interlocutors.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
14d ago
not a prog but yes, my understanding is that its an equality of outcome type phenomenon. If people were truly equal then the outcomes would also be equal and the fact that they are not is representation of some hidden inequality that we just can't see yet.
YoungAchamian
We walk conditioned ground and name our folly civilization.
19d ago
Most ‘accidental Americans’ are not accidental at all. There’s a huge growth industry of third world PMCs flying to the US to give birth so their kids get citizenship.
This is a fairly strong claim, is there any evidence for it happening at industrial scale? There are interesting left-wing arguments that could be made if its true but you would need evidence that its more than just a conspiracy theory.
Right but was the "Women are the problem" part of your view back then, or was that the catalyst that pushed you towards "the discovery of the truth"? Dating really is a lot of luck, you need to meet the right person at the right time.
Yeah I can agree that the current dating market is fucked, I just don't buy grand overarching narratives that its all a single gender's fault rather than the complex interplay between genders, their desires and their interactions. However given that this is the environment, the real question is more what can you do to protect yourself, improve your odds, and still build the life you want? Being right about the system can explain your situation. It cannot, by itself, improve it. At some point, you have to decide whether proving that the problem is unfair matters more than finding a way through it.
There seems to be a bit of a motte and baily here: Motte: There are systemic issues causing relationship formation and interpersonal social cohesion to plummet. Bailey: Women are the cause of all of this because xyz evidence.
As is your right, I once was like you, I made the same arguments you do, with the same totalizing world view. I think it can be very cathartic, but it's very resentment driven. Resentment poisons the soul. You come across very resentful on this forum towards women, but who am I to know you IRL. I can only pattern match to myself of yesteryear and advise you to take a more nuanced stance that isn't so totalizing, blaming a single gender for all the social dysfunction. I'm sure you'll tell me its not resentment, its observing reality and truth! Truth hurts!! Yeah... I've been there...
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