YoungAchamian
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User ID: 680
YoungAchamian
10d ago
Private Christian Schools are a dime a dozen. You know the kind that selects for parents who want to send their children to a Christian school in the first place? If you don't like Christian practices, then you can easily remove your child from the private school. If you like the other benefits then you can weigh your distaste against them.
In practice we kinda do know what progressive schools look like, and its not 24/7 Groomers, pedos, and gender transitions. Just because you have a personal distaste for one over the other doesn't mean there isn't symmetry. In my eyes, you are standing in a glass house and trying to justify why you should be allowed to throw stones. Every argument you make against progressive schools can just be flipped and applied to Christian schools. In part because progressivism is just derived from Christianity and holds similar memetic characteristics, but also because its a totalizing belief system than for some reason requires you to force it on others who don't want it.
YoungAchamian
10d ago
Yeah no... Sex is not the pregnant making thing. Sex is just Sex. It can be done for any number of reasons. Pregnancy is merely a risk of Sex. Provide an actual argument that the sole telos of sex is procreation or leave your Christian-derived beliefs in your own life.
YoungAchamian
10d ago
I think giving Anglo's the credit/blame for inventing the idea of conquest to be a bit nonsensical. And I'd say classical liberalism and democracy are two separate things. I'd go further and argue that democracy actually exacerbates that weakness/failure of classical liberalism. The crowd is always dumb, and there is nothing dumb people like more than dopamine triggering behaviors. The failure of democracy is that it provides a means to allow such easy thrills to be indulged, provided by the state. And what thrill is more primal, more intrinsic to human nature, and more destructive to communities than intra-tribal warfare.
Universal Suffrage has pretty much fucked us.
YoungAchamian
10d ago
I think this is an interesting thought. Like a trace that economic need/prosperity requires cooperation among a larger subsection of the populace, but once a threshold is achieved, the luxury beliefs of intra-tribal warfare resurges until at which point all the economic surplus is consumed starting the cycle over again.
YoungAchamian
10d ago
Damn why does this sound so much like revolutionary Marxism... Yes! Comrade the subversive illiberals must be rooted out before they poison the discourse! Vigilance must be maintainted!
YoungAchamian
10d ago
Naturally, for those who believe in that, especially for those who draw a salary from that belief, it's just Common Decency.
This is the biggest issue, both sides feel that they are just right and need to save others from poor behavior or bad decisions when its not asked for. The can't recognize that their beliefs are not the one-true reality.
YoungAchamian
10d ago
Don’t be gay. It’s bad for you. Just find a nice wife.
You don't need to save me or anyone else, we don't want you to. Just live your own life. Other people being gay does not affect you.
I can imagine to an actual gay person hearing comments like that feels a lot like your fellow Americans hating you.
YoungAchamian
10d ago
I mean the internet didn't exist in the 70s and 80s. Considering the Moral Majority engaged in cancel culture at a similar levels as the Woke/SJW, I imagine, if it did exist the Moral Majority would have wasted no time in cancelling you on the internet. The Moral Majority did try to take away your job...
YoungAchamian
10d ago
I wonder if its incapability or if has just created such a psychological scar that they perpetually view themselves as the underdog. A lot of ink has been spilled on the weird prog belief, that even as they control much of the establishment, they still genuinely see themselves as the underdog fighting the system. Part of that is undoubtedly the revolutionary marxism, but I wonder how much of it is scarring from the moral majority?
Yeah I predict Gen Z having experienced a decade+ of Leftwing Authoritarianism will swing rightward in the cultural direction while also being leftwing/populist in the economic direction as a direct consequence of their upbringing.
YoungAchamian
10d ago
Moral Majority. I'd go so far as to say a lot of the anti-conservative/anti-religious reaction today by the progressives is due to generational trauma inflicted by overzealous authoritarianism by the moral majority. Notice how most of it is not economic leftism but cultural leftism, the moral majority was authoritarian cultural rightism.
YoungAchamian
10d ago
To be clear you are clearly biasing the framing towards your viewpoint.
To me you asked me:
- Would you rather your kids be forced to give a little Sig Heil in the morning and have the school teach them why being gay, crippled, jewish, romani, black, not white and straight is evil and should be killed for the betterment of the community
Or
- Would you rather your kids be forced to recite the communist manifesto and have the school teach them why being a dirty selfish capitalist is the root of all evil in the world, and if they don't share everything or report on people, including their parents, to the state then they are anti-revolutionary and thus evil.
long politely with the Our Father once per day
Yes a polite Sig Heil is not a big ask.
'the school can arbitrarily change my child's gender' is.
Have you tried not oppressively forcing your child to adhere to evil capitalist notions that people are not all inherently created equally?
Your conception of the prayer vs gender pronouns is hysterically biased. It's never just a polite "oh father" just like its never just a polite "please use they/them". Give an inch and everyone takes a mile.
YoungAchamian
10d ago
I view them as equal levels of bullshit. The fact that you think one is worse than the other is the point. You think the Red's way is the lesser of two evils.
YoungAchamian
10d ago
Sure, but is not history evidence that WEIRD Anglo's enforced a classical liberalism morality that strongly emphasized a "fuck you stop bothering me" morality. Seems to me that it won so hard that people are like fish: they aren't even aware they have it until its gone. People are slowly waking up to that fact, and currently are re-inventing all the sectarian conflicts that lead to that morality even emerging.
Maybe people should stop being barely evolved apes and actually just grow up.
YoungAchamian
10d ago
See I am increasingly cynical that this is not a Red vs Blue split but an Elites vs Proles split. While a case could be made on the sanctity of freedom of speech, to me this looks like the Red Elites not punishing the Blue Elites so that they won't be punished in return. The common man still gets fucked by the laws. The common gay/lesbian was still barred from marriage, Abortion was still banned, Porn is still trying to be banned, DnD was still shunned as devil worship. The rich/elites didn't have to worry about any of these "laws" because they were rich/elite. Evidence of them being exempt is about as convincing as rich blues being exempt from DEI and woke-shit.
YoungAchamian
10d ago
I wish I had the time, I do love esoteric knowledge. I am unfortunately already consumed by the practical mundanities of life and the constrains they force upon you. I small outlet is technically//professionally relevant ML/AI esoterism around information utilization and learning knowledge.
It's neutral vs conservative all the way down.
One of the major issues for aware independents/neutrals is that while Blues are doing this while they are in power, can Reds offer any evidence that they wouldn't do the same? The Reds clearly had the power in the 1980s and used it to do pretty much the same thing the Blues are doing now. They used the federal government to write laws to ban behaviors that they felt were morally incorrect, to punish organizations in the outgroup. Is there any evidence that the Red tribe has learn the bitter lesson? Or once they dismantle the Blue-tribe institutions with the help from independents, will they immediately turn on those allies for being sinners and go back to instituting their own class of authoritarian ideals, now with an extra helping of zero-sum power politics?
YoungAchamian
10d ago
I think it pretty much encapsulates a hard determinism stance.
To be clear I am rebutting the ideas that "Objectively humans are next token predictors" which I think is incredibly foreign to any sort of understanding of human cognitive processing. I think most research out there demonstrates that humans are not running a biological regression analysis on the correct next token to get what they want, hell the conception of "want" is opposed to the classification of a "next token predictor" which quite literally has no "wants", it just does its function.
Whether or not this is a good repudiation of "LLMs are conscious" was pretty orthogonal to the comment, which was essentially attempting to argue:
- Humans are "next token predictors", so LLMs being "next token predictors" is not a rebuttal of LLM consciousness.
I was specifically arguing that conceiving of humans as "next token predictors" only works if you accept all the ramifications of that argument, which is the argument for hard determinism, aka free will is an illusion. And while a case could be made, I think such an argument is very unpalatable to the vast majority of people.
YoungAchamian
11d ago
I don't think its really a problem, so much a functional classification derivation. I think its that its sole function is that of a language prediction model. I would struggle to classify any sort of model that has a singular unitary function as a sentient or conscious being. I think LLMs as they exist are intelligent but that intelligence is not the same thing as consciousness.
I've also stated before that I think most conscious beings are non-markovian, and that LLMs fail that criteria.
YoungAchamian
11d ago
It's referencing a specific phrasing or reference from a previous argument, hence the quotes.
YoungAchamian
11d ago
Default Mode Network
uhhh I'm not following this at all, can you explain it more? The wikipedia article is strictly anatomical/medical and doesn't seem to have anything related to memory wiping?
YoungAchamian
11d ago
The "wild bitching" is RLHF trained behavior... it sees wild bitching in its RLHF training set and is trained that it is a valid permutation of a response. Use of forms is the agentic software harness, not the LLM...
YoungAchamian
11d ago
This essentially is the hard-determinism stance. You have no free will because you are just a causal mechanism probabilistically responding to external system according to your internal set of parameters (that you didn't choose). I don't think it really takes an alien to see that.
I believe humans can walk untrodden ground, that we have the ability to do things that are not causal mechanistically related to external stimuli in a way that an LLM currently does not. If you want to profer that you are just a flesh-bag robot with no free will, that is a belief system, but I'm not sure you'd like the ramifications of essentially being an object.
YoungAchamian
11d ago
Nah, my bugbear is the muddying of the tech terms colloquially, and the ascribing functions to the model that is actually related to the software harness. I think its causing a large amount of misunderstanding among lay-folk.
There's really no need to get so touchy.
I'm getting touchy because you are trying to start your chess debate with me, and I very much do not care about it. I responded to something very specific, and when you wanted to start chess talk, I pointed out I didn't care, then you continued to try and start chess-talk, and I am once again pointing out that I am un-interested.
YoungAchamian
11d ago
This model is literally trained to play chess/othello...
The model is trained in an autoregressive manner, meaning for a given sequence of moves m<t, the model must predict the next valid move mt .
They take an existing "pretrained" LLM and then train it again on othello, by feeding in a set of moves that have already been made and then having the model predict the next move in a supervised fashion. This is not what is going on with existing LLMs which are hopefully not being trained on chess explicitly. Otherwise that would be a bait and switch of biblical proportions.
Like holy shit, if modern LLMs are training on chess with supervision explicitly and then saying "tee hee look its good at chess when we trained it on word corpuses, its general intelligence!!" Is pretty much tantamount to lying to your face about what is actually happening.
Other people's children. Those people don't need you to come in and save their children. Just like you don't need the progressives to come in and save your children. This entire problem is because both sides want to "save" other people's kids. Stay in your own community and stop sticking your nose or your opinions in places that don't affect you.
Yes I'm sure Gays were so absolutely grateful that they definitely didn't protest soooo hard to stop it, and definitely aren't existing in a multi-generational state of trauma, forcing the rest of us to deal with that gratitude... I'd say the observed outcome of people's actions is that the 1980s culture was not better for the gays. Of course right-wingers are very biased in their opinion about this, because they need to see themselves as the hero, not the villain. Have some epistemological humility, the arrogance is staggering.
You mean a bitter wife who knows he's cheating on her with men but can't say anything about it, can't divorce him, being forced to hide who he is because otherwise his community will shame and ostracize him?
What I really don't get about you right-wingers is the amount of complaining you do about having to hide who you are around progressives because otherwise you will be socially shamed and ostracized. And then you turn around and say that other people should suffer that fate and call it the better outcome. Here you are getting a taste of your own medicine and it is bitter, but rather than learning, having empathy, understanding the other side's feelings, you cling to the delusions that when you do it, it is ok, it is moral.
We truly are fucked.
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