Tree
12d ago
No, that is not necessary. I love individual freedom, but if people want to self-segregate, have a trad marriage, wave a flag and sing a song, the state should not intervene. But I don't want individuals forced into collectives, or punished for victimless crimes either, even though it may be good for social cohesion.
Tree
12d ago
He asked me for this:
give me the metrics by which you judge social cohesion, peace and prosperity to be increasing
I don't even know what you accuse me of moving the goalposts from, you're the one who pretended he only said social cohesion.
Tree
12d ago
Increasing GDP per cap makes civil war less likely. Every dollar is another cushion between us and cannibalism.
And I don’t think social cohesion is correlated to likelihood of civil war. The country most likely to fall into civil war would be one containing two groups with high social cohesion who hate each other. Historically they’ve been ethnoreligious groups. A bunch of low social cohesion individuals are not likely to fight one.
Tree
12d ago
If you disagree, give me the metrics by which you judge social cohesion, peace and prosperity to be increasing, and we can discuss it.
Everything. GDP, murder rate, life expectancy, etc.
Blues are on the back foot because we Reds dealt them a crippling and humiliating electoral defeat.
And you were saying this wouldn't happen, they made sure you could never ever win, they stole the election etc. Life’s too short for me to spend it assuaging your incoherent fears of doom.
Tree
12d ago
I approve of the anger. Suicide is too often taboo’d and romanticized. Strange that it’s so much more prevalent amongst men than women, given life satisfaction and women’s anxious and depressive tendencies.
One suicide I knew was also a high school friend, charismatic, wild and smart. Didn’t transition well to adulthood. Two were middle-aged men with large families who couldn’t ‘provide’ anymore because of invalidity and unemployment. What I’m getting at is that even though I believe one has a strong duty to others not to commit suicide (and not to threaten it), I’m not sure that increasing the list of their duties, the burden they feel, is the way to go. Part of the reason why I can’t condemn parents who abandon their children too harshly. Walking away should always be the available runner-up terrible option, in any situation.
Tree
13d ago
Listing random problems does nothing to justify:
- your dire, ever-postponed predictions
- your proposed solutions
The woke have largely backed down from their most extreme positions during the summer of george, on BLM riots, covid restrictions, metoo nonsense, DEI, etc. And the anti-immigration position is getting a lot more play in the halls of power. I wouldn’t say it’s the best of all possible worlds yet, but it’s fine. In time, all problems can be solved.
You did say you were going to coerce me, or else the woke (earlier you) would coerce me. So it looked like it will be only the fault of people like you if I can no longer live in the peaceful modern vacuum. But sure, if you're willing to renounce coercion, I can do peaceful coexistence with anyone.
Tree
13d ago
I don't take responsibility for any action committed or idea defended by anyone left of center. I don't agree with trans policy. On the issue of permissibility of sex, the trad project involves a lot of coercion and the liberal one doesn't. I don't give a shit about your left-right spats and choose my policies on other criterias, like coercion. Also @Hadad .
Tree
13d ago
Vacuous predictions. That broken record keeps spinning.
Your life so far has been that of a zealot, flip-flopping from one extreme group to the next, fanning the flames of CW and even civil war wherever he went. Life at the end of a horseshoe, annexing societal and personal dissatisfaction for one cause or another (you're mad as hell, and you're not going to take it anymore), always trying to force on others the one thing, or its opposite. Perhaps too personal a criticism, but you’re bringing up your personal journey and mental health as an argument, so let it be weighed.
Tree
13d ago
No one forced you to have lots of casual sex, did they?
When you say ‘police’, do you mean that someone said something? Because I mean real police and real coercion.
Tree
13d ago
I guess I’ve just had better experiences than you. I’ve never been depressed about casual sex or masturbation. Or anything, really. Another difference between you and me is that I do not want to stop others from choosing your path, or the other, while your side is fundamentally willing to coerce.
Tree
13d ago
Nonsense. My family's full of them, and they usually don't deny it.
I don't have to take the words of christian apologists at face value. Their mythology, rules and actions betray an extreme hostility to sex. You yourself, in the middle of arguing christians aren't anti-sex, can't help but insult sex as "soulless pleasure seeking", whatever that means. Just accept that you're anti-sex and stick to the ascetic line.
Tree
13d ago
I don’t. I don’t think sex deserves punishment. And I believe in personal freedom – and you don’t choose a punishment.
That's why trads deny women the right to choose, so they can use children as a sex deterrent. Children are just means to an end in their two thousand-year anti-sex crusade.
If they really thought children were a blessing, like you say, they’d be more like the nazis, encouraging promiscuity and so-called illegitimate children. Illegitimate children are the opposite of their god. He was allegedly conceived by parthenogenesis or midichlorians or something, completely without sex (ie sin). While they were the result of a sex act that wasn't even authorized by a virgin in a church.
Tree
13d ago
Trad christians pro-natality is a byproduct of their anti-sex mindset: every sex act must carry the maximum penalty, and a child is the last punishment available when they run out of stones and insults. By contrast, nazis are pro-natality first , and a ‘sex positive’ mindset is a natural consequence.
Tree
14d ago
I’m baffled by this comment and responses. What is supposed to be happening? What are ‘culty vibes’ and “creepy emotional exercise stuff “? Is it like a jim jones cult, or just an MLM, which mormons are known to have predilections for? Are hugs suspicious? I know some hippies, they always hug me and call me brother, imo it’s a nice greeting for nice people. But I will defer to the wisdom of americans, who have been spotting all kinds of cults since they came off the boat.
Tree
14d ago
There is and stubbornly remains some class of people who think the solution to the problem is to intend to one-box, but then to become a two-boxer after Omega has made its prediction.
I do think that strat works for Kavka's toxin puzzle, though. I don’t know about other people, but I am entirely capable of entertaining a single, limited, stupid thought for a moment, without simultaneously considering higher-level contradicting thoughts.
Tree
14d ago
Could be a blessing. If you think about it, the superiority of drones means every human becomes a non-combatant. You send your drone army against their drone army and the loser just surrenders: there’s no strategic point to slaughtering useless biomass. These near-instantaneous drone battles, foreshadowed by israel’s swift degrading of iranian capabilities, will relegate to the dark ages that terrible word: Attrition. War is going to be as quick and painless as running an algorithm.
Tree
15d ago
Maybe. It’s fair to say there is some inferential distance between us. Anyway, my contention was not that the NYT will outright refuse to report on every black crime or report a black perp as a white perp, but that they are desperate for any mitigating circumstances and alternative narratives they can spin concerning black crime. To the point of concocting a story about 38 people doing nothing when a rape-murder was in progress.
Tree
16d ago
You can do sensationalism and flatten NYT reader’s PC sensibilities at the same time.
'Woman raped! How horrible! And all those people did nothing while she screamed for help! We really live in a society! Imagine being there while he ripped her clothes off! We have failed collectively! Here's a movie of the event so you can vicariously live it, just as it was! But of course we need to interrogate what we as a people have done that it came to this horrible, yet fascinating experience, that requires solutions only the left can provide !'
While your racist uncle’s yellow journalism would go for the trope of the beastly black man towering over the virginal white woman etc.
I think I showed that the specific paper at the time is unlikely to have been trying to cover up a black man committing murder
It seems to me you tried to use that article as evidence of racist reporting from a racist time, but it backfired.
You said:
An investigative article by The New York Times claimed a connection between the Fruit Stand Riot and militant bands of anti-white youth gangs "trained to maim and kill" and "roam the streets of Harlem attacking white people"
as if this was an obviously ridiculous theory, that could only be a racist figment of NYT journos imagination. But something similar to this actually happened.
To go on another tangent, you lifted this whole sentence from this wiki article. This sentence is sourced by wiki by the NYT article I provided – in the article however, those quotes ("trained to maim and kill" and "roam the streets of Harlem attacking white people" ) do not appear. They were possibly paraphrased from “trained in karate and judo fighting techniques” and “connection with two other murders of whites in the Harlem area” by a wiki editor to make the NYT article’s reporting about anti-white groups seem more ridiculous and racist.
Tree
16d ago
I am saying the newspaper in the 60's was very different than today and given other headline and stories they wrote it's unlikely they decided to hide a black mans involvement
I disagree that they were not PC at the time. Look at what the SF mayor said about the zebra murders:
"DEATH ANGELS", a kind of reverse Ku Klux Klan, is based on the muddled aberrations clearly outside the mainstream of Islamic religions. In my opinion, it represents as much a potential threat to Blacks as to Whites. (Obvious Lie, that he tries to soften with “in my opinion”. As opposed to "in reality". And I suppose the KKK represents as much a potential threat to whites as to blacks) [...]
Special care must be taken by public officials and the police to prevent hate groups from converting a criminal investigation into a racial struggle. The inescapable fact of the matter is that most mass murderers of recent years - Manson, the Santa Cruz murderers, Corona, and Zodiac have been White (but they did not target black people). Murder knows no color (these murderers very much did know color) and must be fought without aggravating sensitive racial tensions.
Tree
16d ago
This is the article you reference, in case anyone’s interested.
They are not the same thing. Kitty Genovese was ordinary black crime, out of lust and greed. The NYT article murders by contrast, like the zebra murders (in that same decade), were targeted killing of whites for ideological reasons by black muslims.
It’s actually eerie, because the NYT article presents a theory which can come across as a far-fetched conspiracy, but it was proven right by Zebra. How many of those murderous black muslim groups were there? If there were more, they probably disappeared into the statistic of ordinary black crime, which was then further transmogrified by the media into white society’s problems of ‘apathy’, ‘racism’, and ‘poverty ie insufficient welfare for blacks’ .
And so, by leftist alchemy, or scott's paranoid rant's multiple layers of lies, the murder of whites for racist reasons became white racism.
Tree
16d ago
I don’t know if @Pasha is just being coy or if I’m more of a culture warrior than he is, but it seems to me that the real story is that the politically correct media, as usual, dishonestly presented a black man’s evil deed as a collective failure (in this case, apathy). This innovative lie immediately made it into textbooks.
Tree
17d ago
You want to attack freedom, fine, there’s plenty of illiberal thinkers and arguments you can draw on, including, especially, here. But have the honesty to call your enemy freedom, not slavery.
Tree
19d ago
It’s routine for the somewhat secular elites in those countries fight low-level civil wars against islamists, or at least for the batshit islamists to terrorize the "moderate" islamists. The house of islam has always been the house of war.
Tree
19d ago
Iran and Russia have pretensions to negotiate with the West as if they were equals, but they don’t have the cards. Even as a lifelong western stan, I’m still amazed at how easily the highly reputed armies of anti-western powers crumble. The quick and absolute dismantling of Saddam’s "top 5" army was one thing, against a superpower-backed coalition. But this is just a few western planes and drones taking out a big chunk of a regional power’s air defense, missile launches, leadership and nuclear sites in one go. It's another complete wipeout for a woke, decadent army versus the 'high asabiyah' hard men.
The thing is, a lot of ‘traditional’ jobs are bullshit now.
Farmers: half the EU’s budget is agricultural subsidies (edit: 37% in 2017, down from 70% in 1980). The other main source of income for them is when the village council declares their land constructible, another form of subsidy. The production of food is just some hypothetical scenario (they get paid to leave the land uncultivated) these real estate guys known as farmers dangle to soak up more subsidies.
Japan completely protects their rice farmers from competition (with subsidies on top), so to keep their WTO commitments, they are forced to buy rice on the international market, which they let rot until they can feed it to animals. The asian rice penury from 2008 was solved when Japan got permission from american farmers to sell their useless rice back to the international market(wiki, asianometry video). The latest round of farmer absurdity was EU farmers forcing a tariff on ukrainian exports: the country the EU is currently shoveling money to, whose economy they’re trying to keep running. Robbing peter to pay paul so that piotr and pierre can steal it back from paul to pretend their job has any economic value.
Teachers: we are massively over-educated, and they make it worse. Doubly useless, they encourage others to be non-productive. A university professor who rants alone in a room would only be half as damaging. To be fair the early teachers do provide daycare for the normal kids and prison guard duties for those who can't read.
Doctors: Attending to hypochondriacs and prolonging old people’s suffering.
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