Stellula
29d ago
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Trump believed that there was enough fraud to effect the outcome of the election
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He needed a venue in which to make the argument for this and present the case for why he thought this
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If there existed conflicting electoral slates, the Vice President had the power to reject the certification, and allow a period of time for the congress to have a debate about the validity of any complaints. Such a debate has occurred in 1876, 1969, and 2005.
This seems pretty wonky, and the type of thing that nobody would usually ever care about or even know about if it weren't for cable news/twitter/hysterics.
To be clear I think that this was a completely reasonable thing to do. I think that our system of government is based on (and functions best) when it is competing forces pulling each other in tension.
I think that consensus arrises from conflict.
Every time that Trump is allowed to make his case publicly, so long as the case has no merit, it will lose supporters. Or, if it does have merit, it will gain them.
By not allowing Trump to make his case, and for trying to punish him for it with absurd conspiracy theorizing about "January 6th", it signals that Trump's opponents might fear that his case does have merit, and that by presenting the evidence for it, it will gain supporters.
Trump was clearly not trying to "overturn democracy" or "change the results of an election" or any other bullshit like that. Especially the idea that he was trying to "change the results" (he wasn't, he was trying to determine them) should disgust anybody who cares about American Democracy.
Daylight is the best disinfectant, etc.
Oh man I read this the exact opposite of you.
I thought Trump was extremely, savant level charming. It honestly made me sad that most of our politicians are so terrible.
Him pointing out that he wrote Schumer his first check, or getting in the jabs and stuff against Eric Adams (even if they were all pre written, which I doubt since it sounded very much like trumps “voice”) made it feel like there is hope that we can all actually get along.
Maybe this is just crack to me since I’m an upper-class-adjacent (friends and I are now scheming to buy a table at this event) Catholic, straight, cisgendered white male with a wife and children.
I loved this event last night. I am legitimately in afterglow this morning from it text back and forth with the aforementioned friends.
Stellula
1mo ago
not a fledgling industry that needs a financial boost.
RDOF was supposed to be a boost for rural people with no broadband. It wasn't a handout to spacex, it was a handout to rural people.
SpaceX provides a valuable service. They're not asking for (nor do they need) a handout.
Stellula
1mo ago
Stellula
1mo ago
SpaceX already routinely lands and relaunches rockets. The difference is that this one is much larger. SpaceX has a ton of experience with this.
Stellula
1mo ago
meritocracy
Meritocracy where a judge gets to make a subjective decision on if you get to have a trial or not?
I'm just a dumb asshole without a law degree, but here's how "standing" with respect to the election appears to me, a lowly voter:
"You didn't have standing to bring this case before the election because you didn't know if there would be any damage, but you don't have any standing to bring the case after the election because the damage has already been done. Heads we win, tails you lose."
Stellula
1mo ago
What is the point of relitigating all of this again? I feel like I've had this conversation, probably with you, like 1000x since 2021. This feels like we're going through a choreographed dance.
If somebody actually committed a crime, why should they get automatic clemency? It's like a BLM supporter saying "there will never be racial reconciliation unless you pardon everyone for everything that happened during the BLM riots."
Because there is a massive, massive discrepancy in the application of the law between these two groups of people, as well as the scope of what happened.
Would these do anything? If they get their day in court, the default outcome would be for them to... still fail on their merits. What happens then? Republicans will then just say the courts are still biased.
Because the alternative is "we looked at this and decided you lose. No we won't tell you our logic." Does that seem like it's helping? If it's going to fail on the merits, show me the merits; allow the debate to happen.
Stellula
1mo ago
Here’s how the government can regain the trust of the right wing:
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Require an ID to vote.
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ENCOURAGE as many audits and court cases (with discovery power, that are not dismissed on “standing”) as they want.
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Pardon everybody who was involved in “January 6th”
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Drop all the lawsuits against Trump.
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Actual, televised court cases for any of the grievances republicans have wrt to “January 6th”.
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Televised, with discovery power, and “you are held in contempt” power to investigate the 2020 election, the origins of Covid, and the vaccine.
Now that I’m writing this out I don’t think it’s really possible. A lot of people have heard the phrase “I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation” one too many times. They feel like their government is working against them and will happily just lie directly to their face, and until a LOT of that is undone I don’t think they’re really going to accept the election outcome.
Stellula
1mo ago
Is Ukraine a US state? Do they pay taxes? Can we conscript their sons to go die for the protection of our nation?
Russia invaded Ukraine. They don’t invade The United States, they didn’t threaten to invade The United States.
Stellula
1mo ago
There's always a relevant xkcd....
I think a better analogy for that XKCD comic would be: We can't fund the Ukrainian space program until our space program doesn't have anything left to do. If Ukraine wants to have their own space program their citizens can choose to fund that, or if US citizens want to fund the Ukrainian space program they are free to donate their money to it.
Which...yes?
Stellula
1mo ago
The helicopter pilot being told he'd be arrested if he kept working was told that by a local fire chief, not FEMA.
Trigger warning: this is an infuriating story and the followup makes it quite a bit worse. https://youtube.com/watch?v=s8ICG0iaHqw
Stellula
1mo ago
What would you consider "actual documentation" other than people there right now saying that they're jamming it up?
Stellula
1mo ago
With the hurricane you have to figure out what goes where, and how to get it there, which is a difficult problem.
There are people in ENC at this moment who have figured this out. What they want now is for the government to get out of their fucking way. To the feds: I know it's going to hurt your pride but tuck your tail between your legs and ask the local churches how you can help and then do what they say.
The federal government throwing up their hands and saying "golly gee I guess we can't figure this out!" is a monstrous blackpill.
I don't know how to describe specifically what I mean, but there's a certain energy from high agency people that is clearly present in the local guys "borrowing" excavators and building roads, and clearly not present in the federal government. Call is hyper masculine vs hyper feminine, but if you've ever worked around these types of people it is as clear as day.
If I'm really getting out there and letting my mind off it it's leash: the type of high agency men I'm describing here terrify the federal government. I think a lot of people here work in tech and have maybe at some point met a real life 10x "cracked" engineer who pisses you off (playfully) because of how good they are.
These people exist in the physical realms too, and they're allergic to people like FEMA.
Stellula
1mo ago
I don't accept this.
If we can send emergency money to Lebanon, Ukraine, Israel and everybody else, then we should have no problem doing the same in The US. We're sending aircraft carriers to the region to assist Israel in their ridiculous war, redirect those aircraft carriers to Myrtle Beach, and make the pilots fly over ENC with thermal cameras pointed at the ground. Put a drone in the air and look for people. Send helicopters.
Even if this is pointless, it's symbolic.
I write a very fucking large check to the federal government every spring. Not one cent of it should benefit Israel or Ukraine until there are no more problems to solve here.
I'm sure everybody has their "issues" with the entire response, mine are that we seem to have unlimited money for Ukraine or Israel (or anybody else, actually!) but when it's our own citizenry, then everything is somehow jammed up.
Here's Kamala bragging about sending $150 Million to Lebanon to pay back for some of the destruction that Israel enacted upon them somehow also my tax dollars indeed
Somehow the Texas Air Guard can go help with flooding in Czechia
The other "issue" is that FEMA is fullfilling the "too many chiefs and not enough Indians" meme. It seems like they want to occupy the role or "organizer", and less so doer. The local guys in ENC siphoning diesel fuel into excavators and building improvised bridges are doers, and they are looking to their local church leaders and community members as organizers. They want/need resources (money, equipment, helicopters) from FEMA, but they actively do not want to be "organized".
Young kids naked and crying for their parents, ropes still wrapped around their arms from where their parents desperately tied them to trees above water.
I've been watching this really closely and haven't seen anybody claim this. Can you link to a source for this?
Stellula
1mo ago
I just want to defend the Lady Gaga musical thing.
I think that would fit the sort of nihilistic “clown world” perspective the first movie was dipping into. Basically the world has gone crazy, and a movie where a psychopathic Joker character is maybe but maybe not signing absolutely over the top showtimes with Lady Gaga while enacting some ultra violence would have been perfect. That, to me, captures the spirit of Joker as a supervillain. He’s the answer to the question of what would happen if the crazy schitzophrenic homeless man you see on the street screaming got pushed just a little bit further.
That’s a terrifying villain. I was actually really looking forward to this movie and was totally bought into the musical/gaga thing. From what I’ve read they just didn’t commit to it hard enough.
Stellula
1mo ago
Just to steel man the eating pets story:
These are people who are desperately poor, who come from a place which is one of the poorest in the entire world. It doesn’t seem out of the question that they would need to be told not to eat local dogs, cats, ducks, and geese.
There are plenty of Americans who poach deer or raccoons or squirrels or whatever else they can find who are also desperately poor and live in rural parts of Montana.
There were local reports that this was happening. It doesn’t seem like a big stretch that it would be, the locals were saying it was, and Trump repeated their reports.
If we are both sides-ing this: it is heinous the types of lies that Democrats are telling people about maternal healthcare. Their intentional ambiguity about abortion or what it means is leading to doctors not knowing what they’re allowed to do, and leading to mothers who think that they are going to be denied healthcare while they’re having a miscarriage.
This is leading to women engaging in extremely dangerous behavior, which the Democrats then use as fodder for their power games. If they would simply stop lying about the state of maternal healthcare, and stop lying about what their desires WRT abortion, they would have a net positive effect on the healthcare of women. But instead they are willing to let women put themselves in danger at sort of unwilling martyrs. It’s disgusting.
Stellula
1mo ago
This paragraph literally reads as "I don't know anything about the issue, but here's my feelings." I just want to verify this is your intent.
There has been an increasing number of posts like this here and I do not understand it.
“I don’t pay any attention to politics and don’t know anything about the candidates, anyway here are 14 paragraphs about my thoughts on the election”
Has it always been like this? I don’t remember it ever being so blatant.
Stellula
1mo ago
What was your takeaway from last night after hearing him speak for the first time?
I was just curious to see a window into a bubble I’m not a part of is all.
I think it’s easy to assume that the rest of the world is similar to your own world and hearing from people having different types of experiences is really helpful.
For instance: in my social feeds, IRL circles etc. it is a given that Vance is pro nuclear, and while most people haven’t listened to every interview he has given, most everybody have listened to him speak a little, and mostly have seen stuff like his all in summit interview.
What are some general beliefs you have about what conservative voters care about?
Stellula
1mo ago
Have you considered the possibility that you are wrong about your perceptions of various politicians or political philosophies?
The feeling your feeling is exhaustion from trying to hold some incompatible ideas in your head.
Maybe Trump is not a threat to democracy, maybe conservatives aren’t being mean to people violating our federal border laws, maybe Trumps policies are absolutely in no way a threat to minority groups.
I think there is a mental tax to hearing these sorts of engineered slogans all the time, trying to internalize them as if they were true, and not being able to create a coherent understanding of the world which allows them to be.
I think that’s the burnout you’re feeling. You’re being completely bombarded by increasingly impossible to square lies, and keeping track is tiring you out. I could see this being especially tiring if you live in a place where accidentally saying the sky is blue will get you in trouble socially.
Trump said he thought there was fraud, and acted like he was genuine in this belief.
He has maintained this now for 4 years despite substantial incentive to change.
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