PierreMenard
1yr ago
My point is that it makes no sense to say that leftism as a whole is suspect because some leftists are pedophiles.
Well you've successfully defeated the argument that I was not making, thank you for correcting the record.
As for the Sexual Revolution specifically, I am sure that you could have removed every single leftist pedophile who existed back then and the Sexual Revolution would still have happened almost entirely the same as it actually happened historically.
Of course if you only remove the pedophiles you're not resolving 100% of the issue. If American universities started purging pro-pedophile thinkers from their programs like European institutions Russian-related material after 2022, there would be a lot less progressive propaganda going around.
As the meme goes, 'first they came for the pedophiles, and I did not speak out, because I was not a pedophile...'
'(...) then they stopped coming because every problem had basically been resolved'.
PierreMenard
1yr ago
There are a lot fewer proud pedophiles selling diaries of their titillating pedophile adventures on French TV (or any other TV as far as I know) today than in the 70s.
Who do you see on this list of 'mixed-age sex' supporters ?
Perhaps you were trying to get with a philosophy/sociology major and you've heard of Michel Foucault, Gilles Deleuze, Jacques Derrida, Louis Aragon, Roland Barthes, Louis Althusser, Simone de Beauvoir, Jean-Paul Sartre?
Who I do not see are people like Alain de Benoist, considered influential with the alt-right movement in the United States. Or his buddies Jean-Yves Le Gallou, Yvan Blot, and Henry de Lesquen.
PierreMenard
1yr ago
No, not necessarily, unless we're talking specifically about social/political/economical views regarding sexual mores. ie you can make a reasonable argument that somebody supports importing enslaved young boys because they have a history of pursuing having sex with young boys
In the case of these French leftists, we have a combination of people who advocated changing French laws regarding the age of consent/sexuality in general and people who were going on vacation to Tunisia or other foreign countries to have sex with young boys (and girls).
In some cases, some of these people explicitly argued that they wanted an existing oppressive social and legal system changed in order to make it more convenient and less risky to fulfill their sexual desires. This ended up being called the Sexual Revolution.
PierreMenard
1yr ago
Here is a quick rundown of some infamous 20th century French philosophers
Some videos of French intellectuals going on TV to celebrate having sex with children/teenagers.
An undergraduate paper on the subject
One excerpt of interest p35:
As sexuality—feminine, homosexual, and otherwise—coursed through public discourse in the early 1970s, a group of men styling themselves as twentieth century Marquise de Sades or Dom Jauns began to publish pedophilic literature and receive recognition in literary circles. These men—Tony Duvert and Gabriel Matzneff—were both little known writers before they made their careers between 1973 and 1975 releasing celebrated novels and essays that described affairs with minors in detail. Matzneff’s Les moins de seize ans (The Under Sixteens) lauds sex with adolescents as an act of sexual liberation to protest the moral order and publishes letters from his young lovers as proof of their enjoyment.
Matzneff was welcomed on the television show Apostrophes in 1975 to promote the book and articulate an ethics of individual development that arose out of the sex lives of minors. For him, the “strength and novelty of the affective and sexual impulses” of “children between ten and sixteen” opened a “fertile” field of sexual possibilities—both with people of their own age or an older lover—that would allow them to “discover themselves, the beauty and richness of the world and its creation.”
If Israel fails, Israelis will flee and settle in your country.
Ok they can join the Somalis, the Iraqis, etc... Get in line.
I presume you are not very fond of Jews and are not eager to welcome Jewish refugees.
On one hand I have Jews who take my money and pollute my media, that I can't do anything about, on the other hand I have hypothetical Jews moving in my neighborhood I can actually shake down if I felt so inclined...
With the way European governments have been treating anti-Israel protests in the past few weeks (heavy-handedly compared to other similar protests/riots imo), perhaps if Israeli refugees arrived there, EU governments would start the serious crackdown on Islamic immigrants that is decades overdue?
Some Israelis do mind a lot.
One X frogposter. One. Also points out that US taxpayer money is given to all kind of Middle-Eastern countries that would be irrelevant if the US dropped 'the only democracy in the Middle-East' like the hot potato that it is. They actually agree with me. Good.
Why would competent person want to live in trailer in the desert among people who really do not want him there?
You're saying Israelis are incompetent? Perhaps the US really should drop them then.
Anyway, Israel is not lacking people with guns, Israel is not afraid of being overrun by mighty Arab armies.
Alright let's cut them off then. If Ukraine is so strongly winning the war, they don't need our money and ammo, do they?
Israel is afraid of being declared racist, fascist and white supremacist country and sanctioned like old South Africa. To avoid this, Israel needs to gain hearts and minds of people (elite human capital OFC, the masses will follow) in the Western countries and needs advocates, propagandists and tiktok influencers.
Israel needs to start aggressively platforming Steve Sailer, Jared Taylor, Richard Spencer, Nick Fuentes, Andrew Anglin, Ron Unz...
PierreMenard
1yr ago
That's the point, it's almost never is a central value either way. Shaming homoes into the closet is not something most people would put any serious effort into, and specifically making the community as welcome to homoes as humanly possible would not be a valuable effort for most either.
Wouldn't a commune explicitly founded for (white) adults with 4+ children pretty much have roughly ~0% out-of-the-closet homosexuals? This was the premise :
Gathering a few families with 4+ children and setting them up in a given area should give you essentially the same thing.
Not something worth the effort either way.
Literally 0 additional effort to what is arguably a pretty arduous task.
You don't really need to move anywhere for the former - there are enough remote places in the US where nobody would care much what's going on in there if it stays in there - but for the latter, especially if you're dealing with globalist totalitarian ideology and you let it win, you'd have to move very, very far.
Idk how much the 'globalist totalitarian ideology' can win if they can't get their people to breed and even go out of their way to sterilize their own members. Moving anywhere is still a much easier endeavor than whatever is required in the short-term to get rid of the regime.
PierreMenard
1yr ago
It is not official policy, but you want to make it one, you want Israeli government official outreach program to promote and evangelize Judaism and offer Israeli citizenship (with free sand and rock) to prospective converts?
I really don't care about the ethnic make-up or the future of Israel as a country.
Israel doesn't seem to mind taking American money from non-Jews, so why would the would-be settlers need to be converts?
Program racially limited to whites (I presume that by "Western" you mean White) to avoid recruits like this?
No, I think limiting the offers to people within a certain measure of competence would do roughly the same job. There are also plenty of low-quality White people that they probably would not want on their side.
It is happening. The dirty secret is that many West Bank settlers are people with minimal Jewish ancestry or just plain converts, often from unexpected places.
But the West Bank does not seem to be where the civilians are actually fighting back. This appears to me to be explicitly displacing civilians and stealing land, not 'fighting back against Hamas terrorism' or whatever thinnest veneer of justification Israelis claim for their bombing of Gaza.
There may be strategic justifications for that that I ignore, but again, this is all pretty removed from what that edgy guy writes about Israel being a prototype for Europe's ongoing invasions. Quite the contrary, Israel does not appear to be under invasion, it seems to be the one invading and expanding (in the West Bank at least).
PierreMenard
1yr ago
While in our modern cultural milieu, all of the above are almost universally interlinked, my bugbear with any of them is that they're taken too far, rather than me denying women equal rights or considering alternate sexualities sinful. I'm certainly not colorblind anymore.
As for whether gay men having piss orgies or fucking till their assholes big enough to drive through, why should I give a fuck? If they're not raping me, I have no reason to care.
I respect the right of anyone to self-infect with anything, as long as it's not contagious by normal means, and in the case of HIV, as long as they disclose to potential partners or refrain from donating blood and the like. Is it deeply stupid? Of course. I don't think that's grounds for it to be illegal by itself, until it infringes on my safety or freedom. Since the piss orgy relates to the nothing-burger of monkeypox, which didn't spread significantly outside the gay community, it doesn't reach that level of concern.
People with the behavior that you describe strike me as some kind of experiment in the development of new infectious agents. In other words biolabs, or biological warfare laboratories. They should be banned according to the Biological Weapons Convention.
I understand that you could have a professional bias toward keeping as many customers coming back again and again, but for us regular folks, these behaviors pose a significant threat.
PierreMenard
1yr ago
There are a lot of the former that won't want anything to do with the latter. Even wider - a lot of people who object to child transitions, kid drag shows and other insanities don't actually mind if two adult dudes fuck each other, if they'd like so.
Well they can join the pro-homo commune if that's a central value to them. I don't see a way to rollback the Progress™ to LGB without the T, a sort of 2000s conservatism, without risking the Progress to re-roll back in immediately, like it already did in the 2010s.
I think a lot of people don't care that much about the 'two adults behind closed doors' problem, but the community has moved way past that a long time ago.
None of the things that you characterize as 'insanities' would exist if their perpetrators were shamed into the 'closet', or better, if they were not able to propagate the very idea of them.
Again, nobody will choose to isolate themselves into enclaves or move to less-technologically-advanced countries if they did not feel strongly about any of these issues.
I don't expect this to happen before some major political changes, perhaps a full-on Covid-style ban on freedom of association, ban on homeschooling, massive zoning changes... Could take 5 years like it could take 20.
PierreMenard
1yr ago
I think they'd try if the trickle became a deluge.
If the trickle becomes a deluge then the country will be in such a state that they won't have much capacity to go after dissidents.
PierreMenard
1yr ago
The things that ZHP and others want - abolishing women's suffrage, pushing all gays back into the closet, racial segregation - are political non-starters, and not just in America: these positions would be completely insane to advocate for in most countries.
Most Western countries perhaps, but the world is bigger than that.
The way Western countries are going, policies don't need to be advocated to a larger audience. Gathering a few families with 4+ children and setting them up in a given area should give you essentially the same thing. Nobody can stop White Flight. The difficulty is really on everything else. What are you willing to give up to live in racial segregation, etc?
So who exactly is the target audience here except the terminally online?
People like you apparently, never seen that website before you posted it.
PierreMenard
1yr ago
How are Jews responsible for Sweden's immigration policies and hate speech laws?
How are Jews responsible for the conclusion of WW2?
That is, MacDonald claims that the West would be markedly different if not for Jewish influence, but Europe, which lost nearly its entire Jewish population following WWII, has been on essentially the same trajectory as the United States for the last 80 years.
Sweden operates in a global economy, plugged-in worldwide telecommunications and global media. Sweden only dubs children shows. 86% of the Swedish population speaks English. They get American media, which sometimes means Jewish-influenced media.
Aside from that, I don't disagree that Europeans might just go that way no matter what.
Perhaps the natural, inescapable conclusion of European civilization is some kind of glorious fiery, but mostly peaceful protest.
I disagree with this guy. If Israel can't defend themselves from what he calls 'the third world' (Israel is not located in subsaharian Africa), then why should anybody else defend them? Why do they need our money?
Let these Israelis figure out a way to survive without begging, without running intense propaganda campaigns on Westerners. Get creative for once. Idk, offer some training, weapons and land to disillusioned Western youth similarly to ISIS?
Let's see an Israeli Roterham before we talk about Israel being the bulwark of the West. At least Israel has walls all around it.
PierreMenard
1yr ago
Agreed.
Propaganda is a thing because it works.
If all you're looking for is enjoying yourself then knowing as little as possible and even being able to selectively forget things as time goes will be your greatest asset.
Me? I could not enjoy a picture with a black Queen of England or another 'racist cops abuse innocent minority, real culprit was enemy-of-the-day' trope. Even worse, when it's blindingly obvious that the film-makers specifically hate me, as a person.
I don't want my children to fit in with that crowd either, or we would not be able to get along.
PierreMenard
1yr ago
That is not what I am suggesting.
This makes me think that one way for Israel to resolve that Hamas conundrum would be to offer Palestinians female-only visas, scholarships and massive cash bonuses to study and work in Israel and elsewhere. Something like what the Americans tried in Afghanistan but actually effective.
People raised on non-organic lentils and meat are mostly substantially healthier than farmers who ate organic nongmo grain.
Who is that? The average Westerner eats processed food and micro-plastics, and drinks artificial hormones and corn syrup. European farmers were not vegans, idk where you got this idea from.
Star Wars and LOTR are still available, and in fact cheaper. And we have anime now!
Avatar the last airbender came out in the 2000s, I'm not aware of any other successful Western-made anime. If anything the new Pixar and Disney cartoons are worse than the past ones.
Does $1 million spent in real estate in SF or NYC give you the same quality of life than 20 years ago? Yes which is bad but that has a specific identifiable cause (pervasive land use restrictions) rather than the economy being bad.
The mayor of NYC blames it on immigration. City-dwellers need to learn to tackle their crime problem before they preach to others about increasing population density.
PierreMenard
1yr ago
Being enslaved sucks donkey balls.
While the idea of freedom is an interesting one, I do not believe that there is anybody free of any master. One can only hope for a gentle master.
Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light...
Fuck slavers; that dude in the ghetto is at least nominally free, he's not liable to get bought and sold like a fucking cow, and he has at least nominal rights.
If it's not a literal slave to a planter, he probably is beholden to some type of landlord. Anybody living on welfare is at the mercy of some policymakers changing eligibility rules or other people's money drying up. He's also a slave to his passions (sin).
PierreMenard
1yr ago
Why did the public swamp politicians? Did somebody tell them to? Perhaps a shiny box in their pocket or in their living room?
The flaw of democracy is that most people are extremely influenceable by what other people tell them, especially if these other people seem to know what they are talking about. Anybody with a pile of money large enough to get a sufficiently large enough megaphone and some respectable-looking attire can legally, publicly influence policy in democratic countries toward any outcome without any repercussion.
This is essentially what the Democrats and their media machine claimed Russia did in the 2016 American elections, but somehow we are still playing this same game.
PierreMenard
1yr ago
Whites don't need an ethnostate because we already have the thing that an ethnostate would exist to give us. E.g. when white Zimbabweans were a persecuted minority, they had somewhere to flee to that opened the doors for them.
Heterosexual white men are not protected from affirmative action (discrimination) in most of the West, so what is that elusive 'the thing that an ethnostate would give exist to give us'?
PierreMenard
1yr ago
Are the living conditions of the lower-class absolutely worse than a couple centuries back?
A physician was able to have a live-in cook and nanny because things were bad for cooks and nannies, not because things were good for physicians.
Is it worse to live in a comfortable household working for smart people than working a Walmart job (or several) you have to drive to, pay rent, pay medical bills, etc...?
Out of all the jobs one could do in the 18th or 19th century, working for physicians was probably not among the worst.
On one hand working conditions have greatly improved in many ways, with fatalities going down (at least in the West, while importing from dangerous facilities still operating elsewhere). On the other hand it seems that the general quality of many things that matter to the human experience has degraded.
Is it better for a black man to work hard in a field for a white master, who provides food, shelter and medical care, sometimes even education, or to be nominally free in a society where the food, shelter, medical care and education are still largely organized and provided by white people, but with no meaningful work, structure or community to speak of?
Is it worse to die under the lashes of an abusive master or "in mutual combat" with another "free" black man?
I'd be curious to see the rate of violent death of young black men then vs now.
I would wager that the under-class of a 100-years ago was somewhat more literate than the current one, and perhaps better-mannered. At least I'd imagine the ones that did have access to education ended up more literate than now that education is ubiquitous. I believe religion and family were more important, terrible life choices were possible and had direr consequences than now, but were actively discouraged, rather than incentivized, by society.
The most conservative Amish seem to be technologically-backward, and I don't know what economists would say about their economy, but they seem to live peaceful, well-organized, productive lives with tight-knit communities able to lift up their members in times of weakness.
Collectively, American society does extend a helping hand through government programs, churches, charities, technological innovations, but it's still hard for those who suffer of obesity, broken families, lack of meaningful employment, lack of adequate medical care, drug use, to be told that 'everything is fine, no, better than ever'.
PierreMenard
1yr ago
I took Economy 101 and the measure of inflation seemed like it was basically made-up. One could argue that the average modern poor person in a Western country is immensely wealthier than one 400 years ago due to great technological developments but 400 years ago every single food item was fully organic, non-GMO, non-processed, free of microplastics (perhaps including different types of pollutants)... A physician at the time probably had a live-in cook and nanny to handle all the domestic work. A lot of that work has been automated but you still see billionaires pushing buttons to call elevators for some reason.
Even if you go back a couple years. Somebody who graduated in 2020 probably paid roughly the same price as somebody who has yet to graduate and spent perhaps a full year of watching essentially youtube videos and being forced to wear a muzzle and other humiliating rituals.
Entertainment is cheaper? Are the 2020s versions of Lord of the Rings equivalent to the 2000s? Are the 2010-20s versions of Star Wars equivalent to the previous ones?
Does $1 million spent in real estate in SF or NYC give you the same quality of life than 20 years ago?
PierreMenard
1yr ago
It's what the majority of people in the country agree upon.
And what is that?
Prior to 2015 same-sex marriage was illegal on the federal level, after that it was legal. Did same-sex marriage supporters become Americans in 2015 after decades of "America not being their country" and did same-sex marriage opponents stop being American after 2015?
Roe vs Wade was overturned in 2022, did believers in federally-protected abortion stop being American while Roe opponents suddenly gained a new-found American identity?
PierreMenard
1yr ago
I disagree.
I have not seen a single pro-Israel comment modded. It's possible that anybody willing to write comments in defense of innocent civilians in Gaza is not as apt to follow the rules, but still it's somewhat surprising.
My impression is that the open anti-semites who dedicate a lot of time making a ruckus here have been rather thoroughly enjoying the opportunity to go all-out in their criticism of Israel, and the ones who do so while obeying the rules have not gotten moderated for it. My impression of anyone who feels that this forum is either "too pro-Israel" or "too pro-Palestine" is that they must just not enjoy dissenting views being aired openly, because we have numerous good posters here with a genuinely diverse array of views on the matter.
My own impression is that the respectable rules regarding outgroup, light and heat etc which were rather strictly enforced in some cases in the past seem to have been somewhat relaxed in the past couple weeks since a lot of the 'high reputation' regulars have found a group that they really want to boo at for once. And perhaps I'm being too harsh as I don't expect a lot of forums to be handling these events very well.
Arguably, anti-semites provide a valuable perspective that is (usually) sorely lacking in mainstream media, and it seems that one could hypothesize that taking into account that perspective may help in understanding, preventing and mitigating attacks against jewish populations.
What if the situation was reversed???
I've become blackpilled enough to believe that most jews today, deep down, want to control the world and nothing less.
Objective statement about hypothetical antisemite self-psychology. Moddable?
"the whole government of Israel uses Israeli civilians as their excuse to genocide the Palestinian people"
Now, you might think, "that's stupid, obviously I'm only saying things that I think." But these are the kinds of locution that put distance between us and the issues we are talking about, and enable people who disagree with one another to speak about matters of disagreement.
It is true that I could have taken more time to add the Israeli government quotes about animals and other things they qualified the Palestinians with, as quoted by other users here. Perhaps my argument would have had more weight to support an existing intent to ethnically cleanse the area or at least dehumanize civilians to enable genocide later.
"but what about these other people" is not especially relevant, except where it helps you to better understand what you did wrong.
Well I do know that reputation matters in how you are treated and I also now understand that if I want to get away with calling for civilian bombing apologetics, some civilians are more fair game than others. I'm also providing feedback on moderation / site usage for other users, who may or may not agree.
PierreMenard
1yr ago
No, it's heat to make sweeping claims of attempted genocide without careful phrasing, furnishing of evidence, steelmanning your opposition, etc.
But you modded me, not the poster I was replying to.
I’m not sure how you can describe the recent Palestinian attack on Israel other than it’s a hate crime and genocide. She then posted support for them with no qualifiers. That is being extremely charitable.
I'm not the one making a claim of attempted genocide here, I'm just asking the poster, who I thought -and I'm not alone considering the rating of that comment- was not evaluating the situation correctly, to consider if the situation was reversed.
The problem is that you're clearly super upset about the fact that people disagree with you, and so you have chosen to express yourself in a way that does not engender continued positive discussion on matters of substance.
I guess I have the option of reporting, but my previous reporting has been fruitless. I am not even Palestinian, Arabic or muslim, but I would not be surprised if the heavy rhetoric here in the past few weeks had turned off that audience or anybody sympathetic to them. The 'boo outgroup' factor.
I have tried to balance it out a little by attempting to make some of the most trigger-happy commenters feel some empathy.
I just spent way too much time looking in previous weeks' comments, and perhaps it's evidence that things are not that bad? This one I definitely did report:
I've become blackpilled enough to believe that most Palestinians today, deep down, want the destruction of Israel and nothing less.
No evidence was provided to support this belief. Of course the user has a strong reputation so we can just take their intimate beliefs at face value even if they can appear inflammatory.
Israel is held to a set of standards that sort of rhymes with international conventions but is in fact much stricter, while Palestinians are held to none at all.
No evidence is presented for this claim, is it not inflammatory?
I'm not saying that we necessarily need to have a heavier hand on moderation, but simply that there seems to be a slight double-standard.
But there are many ways to argue for lots and lots of killing, or even for military action that is likely to result in collateral damage, if you make that argument in an evidence-heavy, anger-light sort of way.
Some users are definitely pretty talented at that, like 2rafa. I paraphrase a lot of her comments on the subject:
I'm not saying Israel should ethnically cleanse Palestine, and I'm not even zionist, but what other solutions do they have, pragmatically-speaking, tee-hee?
One example which was probably less cleverly crafted in the heat of the moment:
I think Israel has been remarkably restrained since the mid-90s, and I’d like to see technological superiority used to kill at least a substantial number of violent young men. Retaliation would be limited, and in any case could be met by more destruction. Having been radicalized by the footage from today, I don’t consider these people’s lives to have substantial value.
And perhaps the rational, pragmatic, ethical-altruist way of handling Gaza is ethnic cleansing, but still, how is that not BOO OUTGROUP?
Would a comment similar to this a month ago have passed muster?
I think Western Europe has been remarkably restrained since the mid-90s, and I’d like to see technological superiority used to kill at least a substantial number of violent young men. Retaliation would be limited, and in any case could be met by more destruction. Having been radicalized by the Nice truck attack, I don’t consider these people’s lives to have substantial value.
or
I think US police has been remarkably restrained since the mid-90s, and I’d like to see technological superiority used to kill at least a substantial number of violent young men. Retaliation would be limited, and in any case could be met by more destruction. Having been radicalized by the BLM riots and ensuing crime wave, I don’t consider these people’s lives to have substantial value.
PierreMenard
1yr ago
Oh it's heat to question the narrative that a government can just willy-nilly blockage, starve, bomb thousands of civilians because they're fighting 'terrorism'? Do you have one (1) example of modding on this subject in the past 2 weeks that is targeting the pro-Palestinian-genocide side of theMotte?
I have seen plenty of people calling the Palestinian population as a whole animals or variation thereof, calling for their eradication including women and children or downplaying civilian casualties as business as usual.
Is that not considered heat or boo-outgroup or was it just wrapped in enough sentences that this kind of take is novel and interesting enough?
Why'd you call them refugees then? As you said, these people are already freely moving in and out of wherever I live. Nothing I can do about it, perhaps if we let the Arabs finish them off there would be fewer of them showing up at the border than now.
Land, economic opportunities, women, idk? Whatever reason the Israelis want to live there in the first place.
When Britain gave zionists Palestine? How are Jews doing in Britain today?
You said:
Help making white supremacy cool again and perhaps they'll be safe from that.
Israelis come across as choosing beggars to me.
Israel will apparently quickly run out of allies if it's not even willing to support the continued existence of their nations. If Israelis expect white people to carry the bag for them eternally then I believe that they should have schoolkids recite this pledge every morning:
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