OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
No bio...
User ID: 359
Honestly, if they have a functioning vagina from birth (not a weird amalgamation of penile tissue and intestines sewn into a gaping hole that needs to be prevented from healing over) then I am comfortable calling them a woman. It's clear what direction their body would go. If it would take modern medicine to determine that their reproductive system doesn't work, they belong to the sex they appear.
We're talking about a magic person, so it's hard to specify what I mean by "direction." But I imagine that such a person either has ovaries or could receive an ovary transplant in a way a man could not. Their body would naturally make the hormones to stimulate the follicles and bring forth an egg. This egg could be fertilized by a motile gamete that had a straight path through the vagina. This conceptus would find a home in a uterus.
If you only have to bring one thing to health to make the female reproduction system work, then it's obviously the female reproduction system. A male reproductive system isn't a defective female reproductive system and vice versa.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
2mo ago
Your body is not healthier. You have lost some biological functioning that you had before.
Yes, there are soooo many health risks to cross-sex hormones. A FtM balds because of their testosterone. Do they take Finistrade? Finistrade is risky to women, do the same risks apply to this person?
But I don't even have to get on the weeds on this, the increased risk to cancers, blood clots, heart attacks, etc. The mechanism of transition itself purposely damages the reproductive system. It is by itself unhealthy.
Now, it may be the case that cross-sex hormones are an effective treatment for gender dysphoria, maybe the only effective treatment after a certain threshold (I much prefer treatment that would make someone's hormones more like their natal sex if they are being treated before the age of 16, and have seen evidence that this works better.)
I am not against treating trans people with cross sex hormones.
But there is a difference between getting a hormone treatment to treat your mental illness and trying to make everyone else in society believe your mental illness.
I am 100% against cosmetic surgery except where it restores functionality, like nose jobs to breathe better and skin repair for burn victims.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
2mo ago
We use this way of classification all the time, you are swapping disease with biological classification willy-nilly and that is what is confusing you.
Blindness is a disease, not a biological classification. A blind person still belongs to the human species, which is a sighted-species. A blind person still belongs to a sighted-species. Their blindness is not a sign they are a member of a different species, it is evidence they have a health problem.
A woman is a human who, if her body is not producing large gametes, has a health problem that requires explanation. A male body does not require a disease to explain why it's not producing large gametes.
Your counterfactual world where you have XX chromosomes requires you to not exist. It requires a completely different person to have been conceived and born.
The counterfactual worlds that I am using are all, "if the same organism was healthy." It is something that happens every day, some organism in a disease state becomes healthier.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
2mo ago
Do you think trans people are a different phylum?
No, but a phylum is one biological classification. Sex is another.
A human whose heart has stopped working does not change phylums.
A human whose sexual organs have stopped functioning does not change sexes.
A human embryo that does not yet have a heart is in the phylum chordata.
A human child who does not yet have the capacity to bear a child is still female.
An imagined bionic human who no longer has a heart would still be in the phylum chordata.
A post-menopausal woman who no longer has a functioning uterus is still female.
The idea that someone can change classification is a Trans idea. It is not universal. I am specifically countering your objections that a woman with a hysterectomy or a post-menopausal woman is a different gender. They are not because sex/gender does not change. They have the qualities of their sex at some point in their lifecycle.
You are making a mistake that you think everyone thinks like you. You believe that you have changed sex/gender, and therefore whatever definition someone has for sex/gender allows for change.
In humans, there are four potential sexual categories (though only three in reality.)
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Body produces large gametes in reality, or would have produced large gametes if health was obtained.
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Body produces small gametes in reality, or would have produced small gametes if health was obtained.
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Body produces neither small gametes or big gametes, and there is no obvious direction where health would go, even if Miracle Healer Jesus touched them. (Happens, though much rarer than the intersex statistics show, even a person with CAIS and XY chromosomes can become pregnant.)
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(This category has never happened in a human) Body produces both small gametes and big gametes at the same time or at different times in the lifecycle.
What's funny is that there is a tradition of intersex people naturally transitioning and this being accepted in Christianity (below is a repost of a previous AAQC):
...Emperor Justinian's Digest of Roman law incorporated the statement of Ulpian, "The question has been asked:—according to which sex are hermaphrodites to be treated? but I should say on the whole that they ought to be treated as having the sex which predominates in them."
...The theologians of the School of Salamanca consider the case of a predominantly male hermaphrodite who has been ordained to the priesthood, licitly or illicitly, in whom the female sex has begun to predominate on account of ageing. They say "by reason of the changed sex" this person could no longer validly consecrate the Eucharist; the priestly character would remain in the soul, but would now be in the soul of a person not capable of exercising orders, just as a priest who has died can no longer consecrate the Eucharist. Considering the case of a woman who, "nature itself breaking out," is spontaneously transformed into a man, which they say Pliny the Elder testifies is not only possible but has in fact happened, the Salmanticenses say this man could be validly ordained, but unless the matter can be hidden, it cannot be done on account of the astonishment and scandal to those who would see someone they had known as a woman ministering at the altar.
So there is some discussion where someone who can perform the male role in sex can be a priest, even if they haven't always been able to perform the male role in intercourse.
However, that's a natural development of an intersex person's body. It's interesting that they talk about "nature itself breaking out." I don't think orthodox Christians will ever encourage someone to artificially change their sex, or believe that artificial changes are sufficient to actually change sex. If gender is in the soul, than it is the form of the body - the blueprint for what a body does on its own power.
I am perhaps more open than some of your interlocutors, at the least my philosophical and biological assumptions are very different. I still think you're a man, one that has become very sick. Restoring you to health would not involve you growing large gametes naturally and bearing children, it would involve you creating sperm and a mechanism to impregnate a woman. That is what is written into your body, the form of your body which you struggle against.
I know you believe that one day we will have control over these things, and there will be no difference. I believe that your sex is written into every cell of your body and is impossible to change, wherever medicine goes in the next century. Maybe through very artificial and mechanical methods will you approximate what my body does as easily as breathing, but that would not be the same as changing the powers of your body, you would be relying on a power outside you. The Abolition of Man and all that.
I know you wish it was one specific thing that defines sex, and then it would be something you could obtain for yourself (even theoretically, in some distant future) and then you have it. But sex isn't a thing a person possesses. It is one of the things a human person is.
The equivalent to changing heart conditions would be to go from a infertile to fertile, which happens all the time without changing sex. I'm not convinced you understand me and I don't know any way to be clearer.
We do have categories for female too young to be fertile - girl. But going from girl to woman is not a change in sex/gender, just a change in age. And going from infertile to fertile is not a change in sex/gender, just a change in health.
Do you not know what a bitch is or are you being cute? I would never call a woman a bitch, we are different species.
Edit: it's like you are claiming that someone with heart disease isn't in the phylum Chordata. A disease does not change a classification.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
2mo ago
That seems to be an attempt to make others adopt your frame that it is possible to change genders. If it is not assumed that it is possible to change genders, then it explains quite handily why a pre-pubescent or post- menopausal female is still considered a woman, and a post- castration male a man.
In biology there is always a "when functioning properly" attached to descriptions. A heart pumps blood "when functioning properly." A kidney filters waste "when functioning properly." A female organism produces large gametes at the species-appropriate point in the life cycle "when organs are functioning properly." Reproduction is generally only applicable at certain times in an organism's life cycle, but a bitch that isn't in heat is still a bitch.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3mo ago
The "Catholics need to marry in the Church, otherwise the marriage is invalid rule" was put in place to combat couples making private vows and then one partner leaving the other high and dry... 400 years ago. The rules really should have changed by now, people's situations are so different now. But the Church is slow to change.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3mo ago
I think this is more the character he was trying to write, rather than a consistent issue with the author. He wanted to write a goofy two shoes who would rather be a teacher than a top researcher.
While I enjoyed the puzzle in Project Hail Mary, The Martian is a superior book.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3mo ago
I think the Internet is a huge leveler. Men talk about their experiences openly. It didn't take long before I noticed that what men feel when they look at an attractive woman is different from what I felt when looking at an attractive man. For a few years I decided I was asexual, but I am happily married with four kids, so that label probably doesn't actually apply to me.
Even with the Internet, I still don't think I understood. People like to say that the Internet is not real life, and to some extent that's true (but if lots of people on the internet talk about red and green like they're different colors that you don't perceive, eventually you might start to understand that you're colorblind.) I understood that the porn-sick, perverted men of Reddit were very visually attracted to women, but that wasn't evidence that the Respected and Trusted men of my life, who share my workplace and classrooms, also reacted that way.
I waited for marriage. While my husband hadn't made the same choice, he was very respectful of my choice and saw himself as a guardian of my conscience. One day I wore a dress that was sexier than usual. I thought that was just what women did when they had boyfriends. To me, it was just a style that signified that I loved him. He responded differently from what I expected. He told me that, if I cared for him, I shouldn't wear that dress until we were married and wanted sex right then and there. I was embarrassed, but also it was a huge click for me.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3mo ago
I think it's possible that no one wants to starve, even journalists, and they are hoping to dissuade Harris from committing to this policy while still hoping she wins.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3mo ago
https://www.themotte.org/post/1121/culture-war-roundup-for-the-week/241478?context=8#context is a recent example of what I mean. A woman assumed bras make breasts more sexy, and the only benefit to modesty was they reduced the visibility of hard nipples. She made these deductions through observation, and thought she understood the rule. But now a bunch of men are telling her that bras actually make breasts less sexy.
Sure, a woman can learn to be a stripper. But my point is that most women you meet are not intentionally sending Fuck Me signals through their dress, and would be alarmed to realize the intensity that Fuck Me signals can cause in a man.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3mo ago
Let's say you are grandma who bought a good sized house for 200k. You are about to retire and all the kids are gone so you sell the house.
Situation 1, the price of your house rose to 1 mil, you net 800,000. You spend a third to buy a condo in an old person condominium, and now you have 700,000 on top of your 401k and SS to spend in your dotage.
Situation 2, the price of your home went back down to 300k. You net 100k. The price of the condo also fell, now it's 100k. You only have 200k extra to add to your nest egg. Assuming other costs stayed the same, you are worse off.
There are lots of people who would be better off too. But it's the Baby Boomers who are retiring, and they are such a huge voting block no one wants to mess with it for now. Maybe when Gen X retires.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3mo ago
I did say it was a controversial comment. I am a woman and I can tell you that dressing "sexy" versus dressing "beautiful" is like trying to look pretty like a sunset or look pretty like a flower.
I can tell my six year old not to wear tights and a t-shirt because I understand that this is inappropriate with the rules of fashion, not because I understand what it is to look at a six year old with sexual lust. But as the rules of fashion change so goes clothes, and my kids have "jeggings" they can wear under both dresses and shirts, which makes it easier to let them pick their own clothes for now.
Yes, women understand that they are sending different signals when they dress. They understand that this cardigan makes them look smart and serious, this skirt makes them look fun, etc.
But they don't understand sexual hunger and how they dress impacts it. We witness patterns and try to act accordingly, but we don't grok the underlying mechanism, so sometimes we think we understand a pattern but a man behaves differently than we expected. This explains a lot of the disconnect between women thinking men act creepy, and men thinking a woman wearing only half an outfit must be down for a good time, and if she rejects the man it's because he's not hot enough.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3mo ago
A while back I made a controversial comment that was along the lines of "When women dress sexy, they don't really understand what it's signaling to a guy. They want to be beautiful, like a sunset, and these are the clothes society is telling them makes them beautiful." A lot of men have a hard time believing it, but it really does tie in to a completely different understanding of sex between the sexes.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3mo ago
The Secret History of the Catholic Church that you won't learn in school is that, as mean as we can be to non-Catholics, our most vicious attacks are reserved for other Catholics.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3mo ago
A coconut is white on the inside... Really not a great thing to meme into existence.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3mo ago
I guess this wikipedia article is going to be a major culture war battle:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donald_J._Harris&diff=1239033648&oldid=1238918997
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3mo ago
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3mo ago
Kamala Harris is of course, literally half black... Jamaican black father
This isn't actually as literal as you are lead to believe. Her father is partially of African descent. Her grandmother's maiden name is Finegan.
Donald Jasper Harris was born in Brown's Town, St. Ann Parish, Jamaica, the son of Oscar Joseph Harris and Beryl Christie Harris (née Finegan),[6][7] who were Jamaicans of African and European lineage. Donald's father had at least 50% European ancestry. [8] .[9][10] As a child, Harris learned the catechism, was baptized and confirmed in the Anglican Church, and served as an acolyte.
She is at most 1/4 African descent, maybe less.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3mo ago
I will not defend Title IX. The rest of your comment reads like a "sour grapes" complaint. If people like to watch something, buy merchandise, etc, shouldn't they be allowed to do so? And if other groups do not inspire such a fandom, unfortunate for them but they can't force people to appreciate their matches.
Women's sports isn't as popular as male sports, so it's not as if there isn't some bias for excellence in what people prefer to watch.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3mo ago
Do people sneer at Junior Varsity, Paralympics, and club sports? In the US at least we seem to be happy that someone's moving around at all, and will set up leagues for all sorts of ability levels and shower them with participation awards until kingdom come.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3mo ago
the choice of exactly which people who would badly lose in an open tournament instead get to stand up and pretend to be among "the best in the world" is arbitrary anyway
I am a woman and I can recognize that the athletes in women's competitions have a similar strength as myself. I don't really have a problem looking at a female Olympic swimmer and saying, "Yeah, she's way better than me at swimming. She trained very hard to get there." She is "best in the world" in a category I belong to.
Meanwhile, I could look over at the high school boys team and say, "They are going through the exact same training regimen as myself, I'm even practicing in the same lane as some of them, but their race times are still faster than mine. Sexual dimorphism is weird." It's like we were two different species. I wouldn't try to race a barracuda.
I'm not arguing "fair competition" though some are in this thread. I'm arguing largely "freedom of association," our long lost freedom's last vestige. It should be possible for people with particular handicaps to set up leagues that only people with those specific handicaps can participate in. Why might they do this? if it doesn't appeal to you, don't worry about it. It appeals to a lot of people, hence Women's and Paralympic Games.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3mo ago
Ok, sure. Or there are some people who like to watch women's gymnastics and there is a market reason to have both on at the same time.
What is your point here? You accept that woman's sports are a carve out but demand they stay X feet or Y days away from a no-carve out sport?
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3mo ago
Women's Olympics is the carve out though. It just happens to be broadcast at the same time and place.
It's an unsourced reddit post, but this person claims the names of the hostages were being circulated a couple days before the bodies were found. There were rumors of a rescue mission: https://old.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/1f660pm/the_6_hostages_bodies_found_in_gaza_have_been/lkyth9t/
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