Corvos
45m ago
In practice, yes, but I’m saying I think that you’ve got the causation wrong. People think that if they’re working a small but necessary job in a company where the CEO gets 1e9 then they should be getting at least 1e8. They don’t object to the leader of a big company being rich, they object to someone being paid 10000x the menial staff who actually make the place run.
Especially since, let’s be honest, terrible CEOs are common and cost basically as much as the regular kind. My founder is a very business oriented guy who made his money as a director in a world famous startup, and even he vents about some of the CEOs he’s dealt with who couldn’t find their arse with both hands.
Corvos
2hr ago
I suspect in practice most people in private would agree to a hierarchy in which, say, in a software company the janitors are important but less important than the eggheads, who are important but less important than the CEO. In the privacy of their own heads, I think a lot of low-level workers envisage a hierarchy where the janitors earn X, the eggheads earn 2X, and the CEO earns 3X.
I think that’s not quite right. The intuition is that if the billionaire couldn’t be a billionaire without (broadly) your labour, then you should be recognised as a small but vital part of the whole operation and you deserve more than the bare minimum it would take to replace you with the next available economic unit.
It’s the transition from absolute value (the value of your work to the enterprise) to marginal value (the value of your work relative to the next best candidate) that people find confusing and upsetting.
Striking is a power play but it’s also a way of saying, “see? Your company literally can’t function without the work I do, so it’s bullshit that you make billions from it and I make $5 an hour”.
Corvos
4hr ago
Religiosity is higher in US than Europe, so absent other considerations, if most US employees are essentially atheist or Non-Judgemental Therapeutic Deity then in Europe it will be more so.
Not quite sure that checks out - religion is more controversial in US than in Europe precisely because religiosity is higher, and South Europe is more Catholic.
Corvos
8hr ago
Nobody said that. But yes, you’re bound morally and legally to raise your child. With an ordinary child you are rewarded by watching it become a full adult with all the faculties and majesty of Man (plus hopefully certain more pragmatic things like elderly care).
Looking at it from the outside, the labour of raising a developmentally disabled child is far higher and the rewards far lower. It’s no wonder people balk.
Corvos
10hr ago
Today many Christians would presumably add, "Today, we have greater scientific understanding, and therefore do know what Augustine did not, which is that life begins at conception."
But that would be a very motivated reading. ‘Life’ is either a chemical process that has continued unmolested for 200 million years, living gamete to pluripotent cell to living gamete, or else is something that sperm and eggs don’t have but late term infants do.
“Life begins at conception”, is a convention, and “life is something that slowly accumulates as a foetus develops”, is also a convention. You cannot choose between them scientifically.
There were other cases. The most obvious one is perhaps the case where the dictionary swiftly ‘updated’ its definition of recession to include a non-standard but not totally made up one that didn’t embarrass Joe Biden as he campaigned for reelection.
Plus the Wikipedia edit wars around whether or not Kamala Harris was “border czar” when it would embarrass her (though that’s more two-sided) and the redefinitions of “Cultural Marxism” from part of the Wikipedia series on Marxism to “Anti-Semitic Conspiracy Theory”.
Meriam-Webster’s dictionary definitions veer left and include left-wing extemporising: https://archive.vn/FI0tu
Wikipedia notably excludes most right-wing publications from being neutral sources while keeping lots of left-wing ones.
It’s a common pattern: the activists rush forward, then the respectable “we just report the world” orgs immediately provide cover by recognising activist claims and laundering them into respectability. So Joe Public thinks “I don’t remember that word meaning that”, goes to the dictionary, see it does mean that (as of 10 seconds ago), and goes, “ah, guess I must have been wrong and the Republicans are making a big fuss over nothing”.
Do all of these individual actions have plausible explanations? Yes. Would they rush to change the definition of certain words to help Trump in the same way, or consider right-wing usages and mores valid in the way they do left-wing ones? Not a chance in Hell.
Corvos
2d ago
Certainly. I was under the impression a low/mid level true believer going rogue could change the data, maybe with another couple of people turning a blind eye, which is why I put the likelihood of it being true at say 10%, but I haven't worked somewhere like google and I'd be interested if you think that's wrong.
Corvos
2d ago
To be fair, people are primed to be skeptical of this stuff because of all the incidents when definitions in online dictionaries and wikipedia would quietly change overnight to back up what had been said by some presidental candidate or politician.
I agree with much of this. Sacrifice is necessary for any important endeavour - in a strike, for example, an employee forfeits pay because they hope to get more later, or even out of pure spite to send the message that they aren't willing to put up with intolerable conditions simply because it's technically still better then the alternative.
I've sacrificed to some degree for politics. I had a very hard time for a year or so, and put myself into some very difficult positions, trying to stop my local part of the university falling to wokeness. I held out for a decent while, and perhaps I blunted the worst of it, but I mostly failed. I failed in part because I ignored the advice of my working class formerly-leftist co-conspirator to go after the people in question for having pretty unsavoury associations with local left wing movements. There was a pretty good chance we could have caught them between being disloyal to the cause and affirming anti-semitism in front of the university. I said, "we don't do that, even though they do", and my friend respected my judgement, but I'm still a little haunted by that failure and the consequences of my desire to do the right thing.
In general, my belief is that political power is based on having both a popular element and a machine. A popular element alone is powerless: they can vote, but they can't choose the options on offer, they can't force the power structures of their country into giving them more than token gestures, and authority figures will be punished for appealing to them. A well-funded, well-oiled machine alone is weak: they can push, they can lobby, they can have quiet conversations, but if politicians are forced to (or want to) disclaim them and their desires in public, they will be limited in what they can achieve. So you need both.
I think this is what @Soteriologian refers to as Zerglings and the Overmind, respectively, and that's what I mean by 'organising'.
The main problem of politics is that maintaining both of those things requires you to do stuff that is icky. So for building a big popular movement, you often want someone like a Trump, whose achievements and gumption I genuinely respect but who I also consider dishonest, venal, and rather thick. You need to be able to cut through by exaggerating, you need to be able to fudge and distract when an issue is going to split your coalition, you need to be able to push your sins and failures onto a loyal follower so that you can be the beloved figurehead, etc.
For maintaining your machine, you need money, power, favours. You have to be able to work with some rather grim people. You have to give up stuff you feel strongly about in exchange for stuff you feel more strongly about. You have to enforce negative consequences on some people who are perfectly nice and probably decent in their way, because they are fighting on the other side and you need to signal that people should be careful before they try that or you simply need to get allies into their seats.
Look at Trump's 1.8 billion fund: it was clumsily executed, but it was the beginnings of being able to fund a machine that could give aid and comfort to Right wingers who fall in battle, the same way that the Democrats gave aid and comfort to all those people who ended up with Yale tenure. And it was scuppered because older senators' revulsion at the graft involved surpassed their desire not to have the country by run by Leftists.
Being a politician means being a sin-eater, for a cause worth it. That's their sacrifice. And it's why I have very little patience for the "do what's right and die free" brigade, because they're actively undermining these efforts and the wellbeing of their countrymen to maintain their own personal feelings of virtue. I don't mean that anything goes of course - when all's said and done, you still do have to be better than the other lot and not just axiomatically so, or what was the whole thing for?
Within the constraints of my own sense of self-preservation and a somewhat conflict-averse personality, I believe in pragmatism. That means you don't affirm pretty things that are no use and don't help, and it means you don't martyr yourself (or others) for nothing because that doesn't help either. Sometimes it might be time to die on that hill, but pick the hill carefully and remember that living on the hill in a pretty hobbit-hole is better.
"Be ye wise as serpents, and innocent as doves" is closer to what I try to aim at, though admittedly with a ratio of 2:1.
Sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick, although I know it's coming out that way, I'm just wearied of the endless conversations on the Right which run approximately:
A: we need to actually organise and compromise on our principles to get results.
B: not organising and not compromising is my principle. How about a fruitless gesture instead?
A: will it help? it never has before
B: the willingness to make a fruitless gesture even if it won't help is the most important thing in the world
A: that sounds like no. do you actually care about making any real change in circumstances?
B: not if it would require me to do anything I'm not already doing
It's very frustrating when half the people who agree with me on concrete things that are going wrong would literally rather eat a bullet than help me try to fix them, or even rather than admit that what they've been doing hasn't got anywhere.
Corvos
2d ago
Because the former makes you fight well in war (a la Iran), or because the former by itself will grant you the latter?
And I think that's very beautifully polished bullshit. "Free to die" is a very different kind of freedom from "Free to live a happy and prosperous life doing all the stuff you (plural) think I shouldn't do" and people are overwhelmingly interested in the latter. Presenting the former using the same word as the latter is somewhere between a category error and slippery rhetoric, depending on the speaker's motive.
If you are prepared to eat a bullet rather than obey, all you're doing is saving your killer time and potential future complications while they take your stuff, pour the ashes of your fathers in the river, and deface the temples of your Gods. As we see from the statue of Robert E Lee.
Personally I want to die fat and happy, surrounded by friends, disciples and twelve loving grandchildren who will further my beliefs and family story.
"(We) Live Free or (You Will) Die" works great, I don't think anybody doubts that. The problem is that it's mythologised until people believe that standing up and declaring your willingness to die for freedom makes you free, rather than being able to back up that declaration with overwhelming and coordinated force.
This is why conservatives are constantly trying to do what the Left does (protests, pointing out hypocrisy, public mourning of horrible murders) and are baffled when they don't get the results the Left gets.
EDIT: Whatever power those men might have thought they had was on sufferance from the British until they were able to fight off the British, if you prefer to put it that way. If the British had put down the American Mutiny (as it might have been dubbed) then things would have been very different, and we would now agree post hoc that those wealthy and influential men in the colonies had been standing on unstable ground.
People often find themselves buying products they don't like because there's no equal-quality option that doesn't have the same fundamental issues.
Companies are engaged in a race to the bottom as profit generators, and consumer sentiment is one aspect of what generates profit. If people really want, say, games with DRM but every seller has decided that allowing easy copying of their games will devastate profits compared to the alternatives, then all of them are going to refuse to sell to you under those conditions. Up-and-comers could appeal to the market by removing DRM, but they don't because they know that if their game is any good it will devastate profits, and because being excessively consumer friendly is almost a sign that it's not good. Even when companies start-out being consumer friendly, they become less consumer friendly as they get more brand recognition and IP loyalty. Sometimes consumer sentiment matters, if a company goes out on a limb like e.g. the XBone, but in general they're smarter than that and test the waters and move broadly in concert.
(Note: this is just an example, I'm not debating DRM specifically.)
A private owner who says, "nah, I could do that but I really hate that" is generally the only defence against enshittification that actually works. In my experience it's very hard to stand up in a committee and say, "yes, we could do that and it would make money but I don't think we should".
Corvos
3d ago
Yes, but the point is that leftists grift to help The Movement whereas rightists grift for a new car.
Corvos
3d ago
Since experience seems to be solidly backing him up - as I never tire of reminding people, blacks in London are 8x as likely to commit murder as whites according to statistics quoted by the former chief of London police - this is less an assumption and more of an observation.
Corvos
3d ago
Sure, but then it would be quite nice to have some support as we do what we can to actually take power back instead of "lol, stupid brits, no balls".
Corvos
4d ago
Who's 'they'? This is like 10% of the population max. They've just got a stranglehold on the organs of power.
Corvos
4d ago
Nigel Farage has demanded 'white hot rage'
Quick correction: he demanded 'pure cold rage' and the BBC misreported it, for which they have now formally apologised.
Corvos
4d ago
Note that Brits will never see an armed man in the course of ordinary life. What Digwa was carrying was highly illegal... for anyone except a member of his I'm-so-special religious group.
Maybe brits are just stupid and coddled to the point that they can't survive in a world filled with non-coddled, tribal savages. Maybe its an American thing to have at least some danger sense and self awareness. Assume everyone is carrying and be nice to them.
Until the turn of the century Britain had, mostly, successfully made the country a reasonably gentle society for decent people. It was not designed for tribal savages. This was a good thing and its unraveling is a tragedy.
They should have known he was dying. They should certainly have managed to notice his injuries while they were handcuffing him for doing a racism. And they need to be extensively and explicitly re-trained that:
- if somebody is on the ground, you look to them and you check them for injuries first, as you say
- you disregard any accusations of racism from an ethnic minority until there is time to do a proper investigation; you do not allow it to prejudice you when you approach a scene, you do not allow yourself to be influenced by thoughts of racial activists on Twitter, and you do recognise it as a tactic very commonly deployed by ethnic minorities to avoid guilt and gain sympathy
- you know and remain aware of the fact that an ethnic minority is far more likely to murder or assault a white man than the opposite, and you act accordingly
And that's just lessons for individual policemen to learn. The police force and the government is a whole other story.
Didn’t know that but wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest.
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