Botond173
10hr ago
I'd say we had a rather good discussion on this matter here. I agree with @coffee_enjoyer - teenage rebellion is very much real in the sense that when the average teenager encounters a grumpy old man or woman who wants to block him/her from pursuing sex, partying and fun in general while at the same time lacking any authority to actually control the supply of sex, alcohol and drugs, that old Boomer will only get laughed at.
Botond173
11hr ago
Wasn't it standard in the US before 1990 or so for high schoolers to perform as part-time workers most of the crummy jobs that were later given to illegal immigrants?
Botond173
15hr ago
Hold up. Weren't they aware or should they not have been aware of the structural defect from the moment they decided to provide that insurance?
Botond173
15hr ago
That is exactly the point I was going to make. Being openly in porn as a man not only will not erode your social standing, which is the case if you’re a woman, but will even elevate it on average. Having the opportunity in itself to bone multiple beautiful women is generally seen as its own reward if you’re a man, which largely explains why male porn actors are indeed paid less than female ones on average. In fact, I think the idea of even getting paid to bone women on camera is seen as a sort of absurd idea by normies. After all, we can all imagine how many men would gladly be doing the same thing for free.
I’d argue that the working-class men outraged by Bonnie Blue would be much more outraged by a male porner earning the same sum of money (for whatever reason), because it’d seem even more unfair.
(The sex scandals involving women teachers that you mentioned is a different matter with a peculiar explanation in my view, but I won’t start discussing it in this comment.)
Botond173
1d ago
Arts, music, and culture can all be readily found on the internet. If you want to go experience it in person, it's typically a 20-30 minute drive away from the suburb. You can easily manage that a night or two a week.
But you're supposed to be doing all that socially, with other like-minded peers.
Botond173
1d ago
Since this is Themotte, the main factor I'd definitely bring up is that the US suburb is a heavily blue-pilling environment.
Botond173
1d ago
I'd also ask to consider what's the point of being a normie in a decadent, degenerate society.
Botond173
1d ago
How do you find a potential wife who is presumably outside your social circle in a US suburb?
Botond173
1d ago
OP’s argument appears to be that American suburbia is specifically structured around the sole consideration of enabling young children to play in yards and on lawns, and that this is done at the expense of everything else (walkability, services etc.). I’d add that this consideration doesn’t even hold up, because children nowadays scarcely use their free time to play in yards instead of staring at screens, and the period in their lives when they are even interested in playing in yards at all is rather short.
Botond173
1d ago
4 years from 14 to 18 perhaps? Substantial but a minority fraction compared to time one is a kid, and not that large fraction of human lifespan.
It's a rather important period for psychological development and social maturation though.
Botond173
1d ago
I remember it being great as a kid because the yard was big enough for me to run, and my boomer parents could either leave me at home or easily drive me around town.
GenXers like you didn't have smartphones, tablets or computers available though. I think we can assume suburban children today rarely use the yard the way you did unless their use of digital devices is strictly restricted or banned, which in most cases it isn't.
Botond173
1d ago
Point taken. I'd ask a different question though. What would you think about a male porn performer making 800,000 pounds a month? Would it outrage you more? Less? How would people see it in your view?
Botond173
1d ago
I am not sure that I entirely understand the point that you are trying to make, because it seems that you are not making any point, but there is no central committee that needs to condone every monetary transaction between people.
People are generally OK with Bonnie Blue making around 800,000 pounds a month because they understand that she's sociologically damning herself so it seems only fair that she's making a lot of money while she can; it's also not illegal and complaining about it just makes you appear like a loser. The people making money for her are loser men anyway so nobody cares. In a similar manner, we're generally OK with fashion models (or at least some of them) making a lot of money because we understand that their careers are generally short, and with men doing dangerous jobs getting good pay because it's known that they might die on the job.
Botond173
1d ago
What I don’t get is why everyone sees this as some kind of moral issue and not the massive late-Soviet Union-style failure of economic allocation that it really is.
Can you elaborate please?
Faye Reagan on the other hand is one of those homeless tunnel people living underneath Las Vegas. Dakota Skye died of a fentanyl overdose.
There does indeed seem to be a high mortality rate among female performers due to suicide and drug overdose. Maybe it's just a case of bad vibes about the porn industry but I'm sure the statistics bear it out.
Usually the fate of ex-porn actresses (like anyone else) is more tied to whether or not they were already a drug addict with poor time preference and impulse control issues, not any kind of scarlet lettering from what they used to do.
Also due to the psychological damage that comes with porning in general, I assume.
Botond173
1d ago
I highly the doubt that prostitution being low status is a consequence of it being illegal. I'd say it's considered low status because it means ugly old men get to use your holes for money. In Germany, for example, it's legal but apparently also generates a great deal of human trafficking from Eastern Europe as there's a dearth of German women signing up to be whores.
Botond173
1d ago
Sasha Grey is a Twitch streamer and does popular podcasts.
That's not much, if we're honest. Any young woman who's not hideously ugly can do a popular podcast and have beta simps orbiting her.
Mia Khalifa is an influencer dating a rapper.
From women's perspective, that doesn't mean shit.
Riley Reid is married to an athlete.
Fair enough; I don't know about his career so I can't comment. What I know is that he comes across as a miserable cuck in the one interview I saw with him. Again, my argument isn't that such women cannot marry, it's that they cannot marry a respectable man they're attracted to.
Botond173
1d ago
I agree that it’s defeated in the strict sense that the majority of self-identifying feminist women probably believe the Sexual Revolution had long-term negative consequences (but not net negative ones) for women and generally failed to deliver its promises. As far as I can tell, they also believe that toxic men in general and the still-existing vestiges of the patriarchy and its female useful idiots are responsible for such negative externalities. They aren’t questioning the goals and tenets of the revolution, only the consequences. As far as they’re concerned, the idea that promiscuous women should be able to live without sexual shame and that there’s no good reason to judge them is still legitimate. The idea that Bonnie Blue is doing something shameful does not enter their minds.
Guys I've worked with. To clarify, some of them do make money, but it's generally not a lot.
So I’m assuming your argument is that many of them have such a low social status as men and earn so little that many of them will never marry and never gain social standing and respect despite working hard. Fair enough. But there’s a difference between eroding your own chances of marriage and respectability in exchange for money as a woman with society’s tacit approval and being downtrodden as a man to such an extent that you’re effectively shut out of marriage and respectability.
have the publishers start scrubbing your scenes and/or stop republishing them
How? Why would they do that? You don't own the scenes.
Remove the makeup, change the hairstyle
Let's assume that you're a guy in high school whose mother "starred" in a bunch of porn flicks but generally remained obscure and only one or two of those flicks were ever digitized and uploaded online. All it takes for your social standing to be demolished by bullies is one asshole finding those flicks and identifying your mom.
Botond173
1d ago
Do the top 1% of blue-collar men have such complaints though? Because that'd be the valid parallel here.
Botond173
1d ago
Motivated reasoning and propagandistic considerations are also obviously at play but I think political sympathizers have an evident need for a narrative that is at least plausible to them and confirms their prejudices before they adopt it.
Botond173
3d ago
I'm not sure what is the problem here that you're positing an explanation for. Why assume that she makes that money because "society condones it"?
OP was asking wtf is going on with Bonnie Blue earning such amounts of money. I offered an explanation that I think is the most plausible. I'm assuming that anything that routinely happens in society without inviting widespread outrage and without getting banned/suppressed is by definition at least tacitly condoned by it.
Botond173
3d ago
They can buy mansions, hire maids, babysitters, tutors, and never work a single day in their lives after grinding OnlyFans for a few years.
I can't find the article but a fair few years ago there was an Instagram model owning the Red Pillers back when RooshV and all of that stuff was at a highpoint. She wrote, as I recall, explaining how she got invited to Dubai or somewhere similar. She sucked a few dicks, denigrated herself in front of some rich arabs, and a few weeks later she was out with enough money to last a lifetime. She detailed how she set up investments and savings accounts, she bought an apartment near a university where she would start studying and so on.
And you actually believe such claims??
There are plenty of pornstars that disappeared and their kids are growing up just fine since the old porn has been long buried with the new.
Yes, I concede that could plausibly have happened in the case of some women that are old hags at this point and have performed in films that were released on VHS and were later never digitized.
A lot of people today will never marry. A lot of peoples children will turn out to be screw-ups. A lot of people have no social standing, get no respect, and are at the end of whatever stick is being swung around. They, unlike Bonnie Blue, work very hard and still get no money.
Hold up. Who are you specifically referring to in this case? Average blue collar men?
Botond173
3d ago
@RandomRanger made the following observation last week:
Bonnie Blue is spreading her legs and makes around 800,000 pounds a month, in the UK of all places. UK Warehouse Worker earns 26,000 annually, UK Chief Information Security Officer earns 130,000-170,000 pounds. She's not even that hot, wtf is going on?
As this was posted in the context of Scott’s recent article on the Vibecession and I’d say that is an issue largely unrelated to the porn industry I decided to post a separate reply.
Assuming that 800,000 figure is correct in the first place (there’s probably room for doubt but that is beside the point) I think the simple explanation is that society generally condones or at least tolerates porn “actresses” making large amounts of money because people generally understand that such women are condemning themselves to social damnation with assumptions about their reputations that may very easily turn out to be naïve and thus deserve to be at least financially well-compensated by simps whom society considers to be loser chumps anyway.
Warehouse workers and information security officers have a certain level of respectable standing within their social circles. The likes of Bonnie Blue don’t. Women understand that she condemned herself to the equivalent of crack whore Hell. It’s very obvious that she’ll never find any sort of respectable job. She’ll never be a secretary, a nurse, a teacher, an HR manager, an accountant etc. She’ll very likely stay in the porn business or become a “sex worker” or be unemployed. Maybe she’ll become a porn director and people will pretend like she has talent for it. Either way, everybody knows she’ll age out rapidly. She’ll very probably never marry or if she does, it’ll be to a man who’s a laughingstock. She’ll never have children or if she does, they’ll turn out to be screw-ups. Society basically throws money at her because she was willing to turn into a social pariah without status for their amusement.
Now you might make the argument that she brought it all upon herself and thus should not be getting any sympathy and deserves poverty. But society doesn’t apply such norms to young women because they are seen as possessing innate biological value and also as naïve and easily misled. We’re aware that most young women who get drawn to porning probably don’t fully understand the long-term consequences of their actions, with the explanation being that they were fed modern feminism their entire lives and thus assume that women no longer live in sexual shame and that selling access to your orifices in camera is empowering. We’re also aware that this is a lie but modern feminism benefits well-off middle-class women so we’re not prepared to just jettison it for this reason.
I agree. Isn't it the alleviation of big, unpredictable disasters that result in ongoing costs that insurance as an institution was invented to do in the first place?
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