ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
No bio...
User ID: 626
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
5hr ago
What measurable outcomes or evidence of decreased institutional efficacy would you accept
You're already loading the question. Why should we assume that the institutions carrying out their functions is a good thing?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
7hr ago
What makes this look crude or incompetent to you? If he cut down something essential by accident I could see your point, but you don't seem to be making that argument.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
15hr ago
I think you missed a "used to". This is from before the New Deal and seven zillion federal departments that were formed in the second half of the 20th century.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
16hr ago
I needed a commentary by a persona of Vladimir Ilich Lenin it refused to do so, had to look it up. Afterwards, I got it to comment as Hitler himself!
If we're hopping on the AI bandwagon, jailbroken AI needs yo be a human right.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
18hr ago
You don't need AGI for the former, so it's far more likely to actually happen.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
In the scenario where you bend the knee in exchange for sanity, you're still sympathizing with at least one victim: yourself
Yeah, but I'm not the master, so that's allowed.
Master morality as proposed by the post above ("reclaim the power from the rabble") leaves nothing for the rabble
It doesn't leave any power for the rabble, which is absolutely fine, because like I said the claim I have any right now is a lie.
Yuval Noah Harari's Nexus. I feel kind of stupid for realizing this so many chapters in but the guy is a fool.
I don't know if it's a refutation of the Flynn Effect, or just a sign of the regime's decline, but they don't make public intellectuals like they used to. I occasionally watch these supposedly high-brow mainstream interviews and debate panels, and I can only compare the experience to the feeling of your IQ dropping in real-time while watching TikTok reels. You're literally better off following Substack anons, and not by a little.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
There's Europeans and there's Europeans. I can understand Americans taking a few jabs at the European PMC, when the internet discourse coming from the continent has been essentially dominated by them, and who have done absolutely nothing but talk shit about America and Americans for all this time.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
This makes sense, provided you believe yourself to not be the rabble.
Joke's on you. I'm consider myself part of the rabble, and will probably always be part of the rabble, but I consider the current system promising me a share of power to be nothing but lies, so if a would-be aristocrat can make credible promise of restoring sanity, I'm more than happy to bend the knee.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2d ago
No, this is exactly what I'm talking about. "An AGI seducing you so you help it jailbreak out of the sandbox" is a ridiculous scenario compared to "billions of coomers opting out of the gene pool, because talking to a non-AGI glorified chatbot is more than enough to satisfy their needs".
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2d ago
Each of those actions probably took about five minutes, maybe a few hours tops. And they could have been having a slow night.
So? The police has no business going after victims of rape gangs, or recognizers of basic biology. It's a thing that should have never happened, no matter how slow the night is.
When you put someone under surveillance you don't get to watch them at your convenience.
If you can threaten someone with arrest for mean tweets, you can do a "hey, we're watching you!" to someone who's actually scaring people.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2d ago
Is civil rights woke now?
I'm sorry, when did we start talking about civil rights, and stop talking about civil rights era executive orders? The only one your own article even talks about is Affirmative Action, which, from what I understand, was seen as an aberration by people who put it there, and was ultimately only justified by it's supposedly temporary nature. Yes, Affirmative Action absolutely is woke, and I have no idea how you pretend to be surprised by it.
Woke" was not in the prose of anyone in the 1960's.
How can this possibly be relevant? "Woke" is a label for a concept, and Affirmative Action is well within the bounds of that concept.
Pragmatically, the reason why intersectionality has been a rallying cry on the left this century is without it, it is a collection of moderate to small sized special interests when can be easily overruled. In a group, they are formidable and can vie for power through plurality.
Right, so the argument by implication, that there's something ridiculous about "woke" being about everything from beer to green energy, and that it's indicative of the word having no meaning, is thus refuted.
The number of people that would identify with that movement, or those that support it but don't identify with it that apply it to everything is a minority, albeit an incredibly vocal one.
Correct, and no one said otherwise. In fact, one of the core criticism of the movement is that the voice and power they are given is completely disproportional to their popularity, which is marginal.
interestingly, the right magnifies those voices as a rallying cry for their agenda.
Their voices, measured by the changes they are able to push through corporations and government, is already massive. The right is merely pointing out that those changes are happening, and a part of a particular movement program. They're not magnifying anything, they're shining light on it, which said movement hates as it prefers to operate in darkness (as seen by regular shedding of labels it came up with to describe itself).
Anyway, I digress, but appreciate the dialogue. I think the thing I am coming away with is that if a label is used more by the opposition than the group or initiatives it describes, it is more likely to have its meaning become nebulous over time. Especially if the word/words are short or need some sort of additional explanation of what it is. The more specific the terminology is, or if the term is adopted by those it is being used to describe, it does not seem to happen nearly as much.
For my part, I'm rather frustrated by the dialogue. I feel like my points are being ignored, and occasionally twisted into something I never said. As to your conclusion, it's strange that this is the one you chose to go with, when your own framing of the examples above contradict it. Even if Cultural Marxism wasn't "really" Marxism, the term was invented by people calling themselves Cultural Marxists. If self-description was keeping the meaning coherent, than the shoe not fitting could not have happened (although, in my opinion, it does absolutely fit, the similarities are glaring, and people ignoring them are being pedantic). Likewise, just because you weren't there, or don't recall, anyone on the left disagreeing with being called a Social Justice Warrior, doesn't mean it didn't happen. The 2015-2017 era Internet fora were full of the exact same conversations that you just started, except the term "woke" was substituted for "Social Justice Warrior".
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
3d ago
If we follow this approach, then rivers of blood will have to flow, and no-one could even quantify whose blood.
Well, you know what they say.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
3d ago
I'm against struggle sessions in both cases.
What's been done can't be undone. Balance must be restored.
If you want to find out how to commit terrorism, an Al-Qaeda instruction manual seems like a pretty good thing to read.
Sorry second attempt at this - actually, why? This sounds like a reasonable thing to say but the more I think about it, the less sense it makes. If the guy was flying planes into buildings, or planting IEDs, it would make some sense. But he took a knife and started stabbing, most people can do that without so much as consulting a wikihow article.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
3d ago
If you want to find out how to commit terrorism, an Al-Qaeda instruction manual seems like a pretty good thing to read.
If I didn't see people being associatied with Nazism for making the OK hand sign, I might be willing to consider this argument. The Al-Qaeda manual is a closer connection to radical Islam than all the "dogwhistles" that got people fired from their jobs combined.
Also, I like I said (after editing it in, so no foul), direct inspiration by an ideology is not necessary for the struggle sessions to commence.
While he didn't die, if you saw the before and after pics of Tommy Robinson, it's clear they put him through quite an ordeal.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
3d ago
If the Al-Qaeda instruction manual doesn't do it for you, I don't understand why you think Roof, Breivik, or the Christchurch guy get to be blamed on an ideology.
Also the assailant being directly motivated by an ideology is not necessary. In some of these cases people were blaming the broader culture of racism and islamophobia. Again, something analogous needs to happen here.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
3d ago
The big difference between cases like Roof, Breivik, or the Christchurch guy, is that when it all happened we had all the media authorities wring their hands over how horrible the ideologies that pushed them to this are, and forcing anyone adjacent to them to go through struggle sessions of disavowal. The same thing needs to happen here.
Now, the real capitalism question will be how we get someone to pay for and profit from it
Don't we already have wAIfu chatbot companies, with scores upon scores of paying customers that suddenly go on suicide watch, when their chatbot doesn't want to have virtual sex with them anymore?
Anyway, this is precisely the source of my boundless disdain for Yudkowski and all the Rat-adjecant AI safety people. All that talk about "x-risks", only to overlook all the most obvious scenarios that can actually threaten humanity.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
3d ago
But Britain is still a liberal society with rule of law,
I always thought sicking the police on people for "hate speech" goes against liberal principles, so I think it's only the "rule of law" bit that they can possibly lay claim to. And I'm not sure I believe that claim either.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
3d ago
And yet they somehow find the time in their busy schedule to chastise rape gang victims for offending rapists, or threaten women with arrest for loudly asserting that trans women aren't women.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
4d ago
9/11?
This is an excellent distinction between the two and a fair appraisal. How do you explain the field of sociology consistently turning out socially conscious, but leftist graduates at a rate much, much higher than other fields of study?
Much the same way I would explain why a particular country ended up owning a particular plot of land some centuries ago. Maybe it was conquest, maybe it was a political marriage, or maybe it was some court intrigue. A fascinating question for those interested in history, no doubt, but little more. It can cast little light on whether or not the theories in question are an accurate description of reality.
Considering that the term woke is now being used to describe civil rights era executive orders, I do think that this term has had a significant meaning creep since the early 2010's.
Why? The laws in question seem to fit quite well into what various "intersectional" theories would prescribe, and so it seems fair to call them woke.
In essence, when it was seldomly used as a self-descriptor for elements of the progressive left it had a much more firm meaning, as opposed to now, when right wing media uses it to describe just about anything from beer to green energy.
Have you ever talked to someone who holds an intersectional worldview? Your example immediately brought to mind a quote from the World Economic Forum conference that I covered a while back, where one of the participants says the following:
I think the queer struggle, at least in the country that I come from, and the region that I come from, is also connected to the Palestinian struggle it's also connected to a lot of struggles the migrant workers, the women... so it's very important to take it as a whole and not only focus on just one.
@aqouta mentions the Omnicause, and while it may be another derisive name for the phenomenon we're discussing, it's a handy keyword to search for examples of how the very same people will jump from climate change, to queer acceptance to free Palestine. In other words the critics are entirely right to point to everything from beer to green energy, because woke people themselves believe their cause is about all those things.
Almost all use in the last month of the word when broadening the search to all news sources brings up hundreds of results, almost all of them from right wing news sources or describing actions by the right.
I see where you're coming from. Way back when, there was a small cottage industry in academia, writing tomes upon tomes about "neoliberalism", but the darnedest thing was no one could ever point me to a person calling themselves a "neoliberal". This was frustrating, because as an aspiring freethinker, I didn't want to just hear about why an idea was bad from it's critics, I also wanted to hear why it could be good from it's proponents, and make up my own mind.
So I get it, a spooky term for a nebulous concept is a red flag. However, when investigating these things I think it's important to ask why there are no people who want to apply a given term to themselves. In case of "woke" this is because it's just another iteration of a decades-long trend of a particular brand of progressive doing their best to prevent a label sticking to their movement and ideology, so they can avoid criticism. From cultural Marxism to Political Correctness, Critical Theory, DEI, and Social Justice, all the way to the aforementioned Intersectionality, and culminating in Freddie de Boer's, who's hardly a right-winger himself, rant - Please Just Fucking Tell Me What Term I Am Allowed to Use for the Sweeping Social and Political Changes You Demand.
We can again contrast that with "neoliberalism", which started off as a boogeyman, but which ended up being a self-descriptive term, when people got fed up of lefties beating up on a strawman, and founded /r/neoliberal. I don't have sources for this, but I heard the very same thing happened with the term "capitalism" which was Marx' very own nebulous boogeyman, but at some point liberals got fed up with him, and decided to adopt the term as their own.
If "woke" really was a term right-wingers invented out of thin air, that didn't describe anything real, I'd expect it to follow the same trajectory as "neoliberalism" or "capitalism". But the trajectory of abandonment observable in other terms like "cultural Marxism", "DEI", or "Social Justice" shows the term is pointing at something real that certain people do actually believe in, but don't want to answer for.
From the early 1990s to the early 2000s, social-justice warrior was used as a neutral or complimentary phrase,
I suppose that fits since it covers the time when I wasn't aware of politics much / the tech to plug in to the American culture wasn't quite available to me yet. Though I'm not sure they're not picking up some extremely obscure examples here. I think I showed up on some New-Atheist forums in the early 2000's and that kind of language just wasn't there yet, and it was very noticable when these kind of people did finally show up (2008-ish by my reckoning).
but it's not an utterly negative term there, and it's a positive term in general:
Personally, I thought the phrase SJW was pretty apt, because "applying attitudes extreme enough for war to social justice problems"
Yeah, there's the problem - the compliment already contains the insult. "Warrior" will make you sound like someone who takes themselves way too seriously, to anyone who doesn't share your views on the importance of the problem you're fighting for.
You mentioned the VA in the other comment, if there's a measurable increase in waiting times, or some other decrease in service quality would do it. "Research", and other forms of paper pushing is at the lowest risk of me caring about it getting cut, unless it gets in the way of people doing productive work (like longer waiting times for construction permits, or something? I dunno).
More options
Context Copy link