ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
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User ID: 822
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
1d ago
· Edited 1d ago
The civil wars will continue until the maximum wage returns to zero.
The problem with "well, it'd finally be a communist society" is that communist societies only work if the proletariat has a [distributed] monopoly on violence (and often they don't, or they lose it, which is why real communism has never been tried). From 1750 to 1900 (and even today, to a point), this was the hand-held firearm, but as soon as that decisively changes you can expect industrial-scale 20th-century style mass murder campaigns to make its triumphant return.
Of course, drones may just as easily not form another shot heard 'round the world, but killbots require highly advanced manufacturing and materials which are extremely capital-intensive. Which is why the average citizen, and in particular the average man, has seen his socio-economic standard of living decline over the last 50 years (hence why he is beholden to endless bureaucracy, the heckler's veto, environmentalism, etc. that didn't exist back when he was needed).
Can anything fix that? Well, maybe you can ask the AI how to build your own personal nuclear deterrent in a cave with a box of scraps (in which case things get very interesting; there may be a time period where haplocide is available at one's fingertips if the technology develops in certain ways)- again, it's not a sure thing that everyone just starts killing each other... just a likelihood.
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
1d ago
all of which consistently center on a man who is passionately romantically interested, separately from his sexual interest in the woman as a piece of meat
Employees hate it when their managers do that too. You give them a reason to stick around- some sort of buy-in- and they're more likely to stick around even though the wage might be lower. They might even do those special intangible things that further your goals just because they like you.
that the plot of these movies usually spends a good bit of time introducing cheesy and implausible situations where the guy might prove his romantic interest and care-giving potential in definitively non-sexual ways
Companies spend a great deal on patronage and branding because, among other reasons, it favors the goals of the employee that asked for it. I hesitate to say "potentialfag" because it's stupid, but why else do people stay in relationships other than the promise that it might get better or stay the same? Evaluating a company is hard, since it's incorporeal and its logo means nothing to what the potential of working there could get you, but you can be attracted to what it is and what it does- SpaceX employees obviously feel their organization is spectacularly muscular.
I don't see many movies for men based around how great it is to serve garbage managers/companies, but stories that involve characters eventually surpassing them (the "boyboss" trope, if you will) are perennial.
That said, job insecurity is still a real thing; in this case, "if you're not interested in my ability to do the job, whose minimum wage is very low yet competition is very high (thanks, PornHub), I'm going to find someone else who is so the relationship actually has some grounds/stability/stakes to exist in the first place" seems pretty natural to me.
[We assume men women who actively want to provide free labor sex without this are a rounding error, as it's counter to biologically-imposed limitations and instinct doesn't fully account for UBIs IUDs. Sorry, asexuals.]
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
1d ago
Yes, but the average human being can't do that either.
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
1d ago
· Edited 1d ago
parents will not accept any case of child molestation that could have been stopped by a rule or procedure they have experience with or can think of
Nonsense, they trans their kids all the time!
it's not bargaining, it's just coping
Coping is just bargaining from a position of weakness.
After that comes depression, though medication can fix that; then some form of acceptance. Lying flat is a symptom of the former but an expression of the latter.
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
1d ago
You can have neither but you can't have both
Sure you can- clearly, all you need to do is to become a public schoolteacher. After that, you may sexually interfere with kids all you like (generally with the regime's blessing; so all you have to do is align yourself with the regime).
Sure, you will still generally get arrested if you actually get physical with them- but for molesters, that interference is the end goal (they're getting off on it), so that doesn't actually hinder them any.
are not really arguments but just social pressure to avoid this point being made
Internalized misandry hurts men and lying flat under these conditions is the correct "negotiating tactic". What is sabotage (including inaction) if not bargaining -> negotiating -> politics -> warfare by other means?
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
1d ago
Well, freedom of association was never in the Constitution to begin with.
(Not that it helps nations that have it in theirs; their problem is more that they put a "we're not obeying this fuck you lolol" in the header instead.)
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
1d ago
Capable civilized attorneys are fully in the tank for progressive taxation and the welfare state, though.
Technically, their failing to reproduce is also good old-fashioned eugenic sterilization. And maybe that's OK.
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
1d ago
Life getting safer makes men and women believe that delegation and training is riskier and may be delayed, preferably (and observably) indefinitely.
So it becomes less important, thus the need to accommodate for it is less, thus the concept that it should even occur passes away.
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
1d ago
· Edited 1d ago
Yes; minor males get prosecuted for self-produced CSM all the time.
Some even get charged as an adult for it, which tends to be A-OK with the courts because again, male.
Of course, what's actually being litigated here is more along the lines of
Were there ever child sex abuse cases happening under a mother's own roof where the woman was deemed not susceptible enough to the man's manipulation and control [as in, she gets charged for it]?
and dissenting on the assumption that "the woman isn't being sufficiently Believed (that being coerced != pained emotionally)" in this case, which this dissenter even took pains to point out.
or humiliation immediately after or in the minutes, hours, or days following the sexual misconduct depicted in the material
Again, smuggling in the "consent can and should be withdrawn afterwards" standard. The accedent likely realize this from the other direction; "regrets it afterwards" is not a law on the books.
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
2d ago
We let them get away with their lies; that they didn’t believe, or profit, that they didn’t know, that they were threatened, that the disease just happened to them, and that it was hard.
Yeah, I remember the Covid times too.
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
2d ago
Women don't like bureaucracy either.
The fact they're the only class with the power to deal with it (because the moral hazard is in their favor) but are doing fuck-all about it is the fundamental root of the problem here.
Men gave up their power to unilaterally dictate terms to women in relatively peaceful ways. Until women figure out they have to do the same- until they fully embrace the fact equality is a solved problem, as men did so many years ago- this will continue, but the fact they're on the high side of those gibs makes this unlikely.
Liability being financially ruinous because reasons (that are tangentially related to the above core) doesn't help things either.
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
2d ago
Yes, that's what they say about the Pence Rule as well, which exists for the exact same reasons.
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
3d ago
And ignores "they also maintain readiness to take action to preserve this society if it is threatened" factor.
Management doesn't know what to do with a department that's "just a cost center, what does he even do, shouldn't we just eliminate the positions?". And once that happens, the consequences to a lack of maintenance usually don't show up for a while. Sure, they might be catastrophic, and often are, but that's future management's problem.
This is a common pattern across companies; it stands to reason that because the same people who end up managing companies also tend to manage a society more generally (something that is also a company, just a very large one, and when it fires people it tends to be more literal) societies inevitably end up sharing that failure mode unless something forces them not to be. In other words, any organization that isn't maintenance-first (or "isn't explicitly right-wing") ends up being wholly unable to do maintenance even when required (or "inevitably ends up left-wing", per Conquest).
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
5d ago
What are we even talking about?
Specifically, anti-regime violence.
The demand for murder of [not men] vastly exceeds its supply- this is why it has to be overestimated and/or overstated. Compare "femicide" for the more general case.
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
6d ago
no punishment for women that rape
The traditional viewpoint is that women- by definition, the passive partner in any sexual encounter- cannot rape.
Why would you expect any society to bother proscribing a logical impossibility? (Not that it stopped them from "can you be gay with yourself", but...)
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
7d ago
The criticism against the Talmud is as follows: among the very many authoritative rules which religious Jews follow with extreme care, are also rules that appear evil. The evil rules are not currently followed, but for what reason? Is it only because they can’t get away with it? Are they just biding their time until they can?
Hence the trouble modern churches have.
There are a few rules in the Bible that also appear evil, and opponents of the Church can thus ask an incredibly effective question- is the only reason churches outwardly compatible with classical liberalism do that so that, as soon as everyone's a member, they can do their best villain laugh and reimpose the evil-appearing rules? Obviously some churches deal with this better than others- the ones that throw themselves prostrate before the community (you can tell the ones that are like this because they have Current Thing stapled to them, usually a Pride flag) eventually scatter to the winds because throwing themselves to the floor to be trod on destroys any community- the movers and shakers give up and leave, then everyone else does. Ask the Boy Scouts about that.
And Christianity, which derives its power based on something inherently not of this world, just doesn't have a good answer to that "but will you turn evil again someday?" question- or rather, the answer they do have is not really something one can deliver in a press release[1]. Christianity is alien, and Christians forget that at their own peril (and if they are aware of that, they tend to come off like this).
[1] The most recent Superman movie was about this exact thing. It didn't have a satisfying answer to that either since the dog bailed him out of everything, but then again, Christians are also supposed to trust that Dog God will bail them out, so...
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
7d ago
a bit like how McDonald's still exists in Russia after McDonald's International left the country
Well, no, for 2 reasons.
First, software isn't fast food. In a restaurant like that you already have a bunch of employees who have the institutional knowledge to remake it from scratch, but for tech the platforms are a lot more complex. Not that a Twitter clone is technologically out of reach of the EU, but they couldn't really re-use anything.
Sure, "but Elon Musk did it by firing 90% of the company", but that only works if you're Elon Musk and still have the infrastructure running. But Twitter EU loses access to a lot of that infrastructure (and the code repos) the second the plug is pulled.
Second, because the product is software, the US alternative doesn't suddenly cease to exist. They don't have to have a corporate presence in a country to sell there. They don't have to have EU divisions for any reason... other than "we'd like to use local labor for things like localization and lock down the smarter workers coming out of the universities in those countries". Which are good reasons, but in the face of EU sanction the best thing to do is likely to pull out and let them fend for themselves while the ad spend continues apace. And in a sanction fight the EU loses for the same reasons they're losing here now: they let the Americans capture the power that comes from building -> owning the international banking system for reasons that had to do with the domestic balance of power, so the EU telling banks to not process payments to US companies because reasons is not going to be particularly enforceable.
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
8d ago
Have I badly misread this or is everybody else crazy?
This is the "just build your own financial system if you want to [political act]" finally deployed against the outgroup.
Which is why people are cheering it. It's that simple.
But then again, this is what happens when you willingly outsource your technology and financial system to the Americans. It doesn't come for free; just like membership in NATO, the cost is not "X% of GDP on military", it's "the US gets to fuck around in your country, delete your sovereignty, and there's fuck all you can do about it".
If Europeans didn't want to be vulnerable to this, they can build their own system. Oh, but that costs money and requires paying for the kinds of talent that run to the US at the first opportunity, and if there's anything European elites hate more than being told "no" it's having to pay their countrymen at fair market prices. So the response to this will be impotent at best- maybe more EU sanctions/finger-wagging to American tech companies because their AI can deny the Holocaust or whatever (and I'm sure it was coincidental that the French launched an investigation against Grok for that around this time).
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
10d ago
This requires taking a gamble on the other person's capabilities/potential.
Oh, so that's how sexuality works.
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
10d ago
Or, to phrase it a bit differently, girl-boss feminism states:
Men are inherently better than women [usually stated as "the patriarchy exists"]
Ok, so there's your foundational anxiety right there. If men are better than women, then women are inherently subordinate to men. How best to negotiate from a position of weakness?
Men are better than women because they are more powerful [usually stated as "men and women are the same; the ideal woman is a woman's idea of a powerful man."]
See above.
What you have to do for a man shouldn't define you [usually stated as "Being a mother is not an identity"]
Humans aren't meant for captivity or subordinacy, so yeah, I get it. Childbirth is just as much a curse as toil, and is arguably worse because this involves a man. This is the standard hippie "quit being a slaaaaaave, man", and most of the other stuff feminists say about this follows naturally (also, this + "men are better than women" = all sex is rape). Hazing for 'you lack ambition' (ironic) or 'I can balance a job and kids' or 'your husband is a misogynist' (by being better than women, he definitionally isn't entitled to anything) framing.
So, you should lie flat and demand everyone else take care of you [usually stated as "Rid yourself of society's burdens."]
Because The Man itself is bad. Women are never The Man. The peace, safety and stability of modern life are never at risk. The Man can't take credit for any of it. The Man is just all the bad things. So you rid yourself of the limitations of The Man, without worrying about destabilizing. You will get all of the freedom and it will have no negative implications. Because, the stability of The Man can be taken for granted.
No additional comment.
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
10d ago
Family formation and TFR were dropping at precipitous rates when housing prices were low.
And yet, there was a baby boom when economic success per capita in the US was at an all-time high, with TFR far higher at that time than at any time after the US became an industrialized country.
It's not just the rent, though that is a part of it. Countries that don't have the housing problem (and aren't clearly being sabotaged for the purpose of pumping up rent; and the US in particular still manages the highest TFR in the developed world despite that sabotage) still have a population contraction problem, anyway, and the market for family formation is (like all markets) irrational, dependent on limited information, and as life-alternatives get better the clearing price for forming one goes up anyway (the "stop educating women/ban porn and birth control" memes are pointing at symptoms of the root cause).
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
10d ago
The real problem is the extended adolescence of the modern elite.
No, the real problem is that it's not economically viable to get married at 20 (the fact the modern elite has successfully memed that one shouldn't want that is a separate problem, and certainly one they financially benefit from as net beneficiaries of the education-managerial complex). For a woman to get married at 20 you need to have economic conditions that allow 25 year old men to become attractive to them (read: economically established), and the ability of a single income to sustain that for a while.
The age of family formation closely follows those economic conditions.
When economic conditions are good and you can get a career straight out of high school, that age goes down and families form rapidly (though the market of existing potential buyers has to clear first). As that happens, the population goes up and economic opportunity per capita goes down, so this only lasts until the slack in the economy is taken up.
When economic conditions are bad- let's say housing prices outrun the ability to afford one on a single income (pick your favorite reason why)- that age goes up. If it goes high enough, you've priced them out of the market, families don't form, and children are not born. However, as that happens, the population goes down and economic opportunity per capita goes up, so it's self-correcting... unless steps are taken to stop that from happening, like mass immigration.
A society in economic equilibrium has a TFR of 2.0.
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
11d ago
I would dispute that state-mandated safetyism should be construed as a craven commitment to self-preservation.
It is the worship of Safety.
the lives of the poor, stupid, reckless children called human beings, who cannot be trusted to seek what's good for them
Thus they center themselves on themselves and worship themselves as the source of that good.
As the source of preservation and sustainment ("they'd be dead if it weren't for me").
As a reflection of Holy Safety herself.
ThisIsSin
Derive the current state of affairs from a frictionless spherical state of nature
12d ago
· Edited 12d ago
The existential threats to young men who actually absorbed some of the "don't rape" lessons in grade school include:
You go to Room 101. 1984 is literally a book about this exact thing happening. The English released a modernized version of that (from the Party's perspective, of course) where [a younger] Winston just straight up kills Julia, as was his fantasy [and per his justifications] of doing in the beginning of the book.
Men and women simply can't agree on the rules of flirting.
Men and women will not be allowed to agree on the rules of flirting. That's what the Junior Anti-Sex League does (the attempts to make all intimate images [implied: of women] legally equivalent to child porn are a pretty good example of this). If they figure out a way to get along the older femcels (and the Chads who find that idiocy useful, since it keeps men from things like "having standards") will lose their power.
Now, if society somehow evolved past the notion that women are more inherently valuable than men- and in modern times they are less valuable due to the way they actively damage society for shits and giggles- then that might change. But that's going to take some doing, and it's not going to fix the damage that's already been done.
Women have a near total
legal controlphysical control by proxy over sex, whereas men have near total physical control in the moment
It's also going to have to be women that disarm first (and fight other women on that point, and train their sons out of the "don't rape" propaganda), and stand firm against the hedonic treadmill of risk mitigation (or just insist on having more daughters, I guess), though it's possible that this continues forever since a birth rate of 0 still won't imbalance the genders. We can't retvrn to the 1950s-1970s; we aren't as rich as we were back then, and to be more precise women are [at the same point in their lives] comparatively richer now as compared to men, and therefore [feel, and are] in a better position to make demands like this.
If men are in socioeconomic oversupply, and as we can see clearly from the dating stats that they are, then there's still going to be sufficient men willing to enforce the physical-control-by-proxy (as no law survives an intentional lack of enforcement). Men can't enforce a fix for moral hazard from a position of relative weakness.
Does a set of all sets contain itself?
Yeah, but now you're into the territory of religions, specifically those that suggests a deity actively maintains the (finite?) state of the universe in this way.
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