site banner
PaperclipPerfector  6mo ago (text post)   24828 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 6, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Very few private educational institutions don't receive federal funding. Private means private-run, not exclusively-privately-funded, because we built a gigantic money pipeline for "our" "education system" back when people were still foolish enough to believe that resources could be shared.

Seems pretty simple to me. Don't want the feds in your school. Don't accept fed money!

Isn't it kind of crazy to accept taxpayer money and expect to make your own rules?

  • -12

The mistake was allowing there to be "federal money" in the first place. The mistake was cooperation in good faith.

But in any case, no, it isn't crazy to accept taxpayer money and "expect to make your own rules". The federal money had a purpose: to fund education of youth. It should be available to any ruleset that can accomplish that purpose. "education" should not have been redefined according to partisan Blue ends, and the rampant failure of Blue educational systems to actually achieve that end should be a dealbreaker. Instead, the money that was allocated to a purported common purpose has effectively been embezzled. The common purpose is not achieved, and instead the money ends up funding a large class of Blue activists and propagandists.

But by all means, continue your blind appeals to processes that have evidently failed.

It has failed? It the wealthiest and most successful society in the world that may usher in an age of untold prosperity for all eternity? What?

I think you and I might be living in fundamentally different worlds. Mine is going wild with possibility and right now I can travel anywhere in the world and have an amazing time. What does yours look like?

  • -10

It has failed?

Yes, the educational system has failed. It has never delivered the results it was built to deliver. Increasingly, it cannot deliver even the lesser results it used to provide. Its funds have massively increased without any measurable improvement in outcomes, but with a massive increase in partisan benefits for Blue Tribe, who have used them to secure nakedly partisan political advantages, and to abuse people like me without recourse.

What does yours look like?

It looks like a large and increasing portion of my tax dollars being delivered to people who hate me, and who openly break the law seeking to harm me. I see no reason why that should be an acceptable state of affairs. You can happy-clap as much as you like, the culture war is real and continues to accelerate, and it will come for you soon enough no matter how far and fast you run.

Given that I'm a taxpayer and it's my money... not really?

I knew someone was going to say that. It ain't you're money, you pay that to live here. Don't like it? There are other options.

  • -10

There were, until the issue was federalized. Now I have to flee the country to get away from it. That seems a bit extreme for a pluralistic society, doesn't it?

It does! Since this is still an awesome place to live. But if you really hate it you can leave.

As I have pointed out you have 7 degrees of freedom in my state and also can murder your unborn child, so move here if you are feeling oppressed by the USA. Other states offer other less free options.

  • -12

One of those options is to coordinate the withdrawal of consent from and the subsequent dissolution of the current system. It's a pretty good option, in my view, and apparently a lot of other Americans agree.

The standard Blue tactic is to isolate a situation and then drown it in "process". That doesn't seem to be working so hot any more. What else you got?

It is working great. I'll let you know when it stops.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats