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PaperclipPerfector  7mo ago (text post)   25759 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of April 1, 2024

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In turn, the African-American was always going to come off worse in the latter system.

Is there evidence that education of African-Americans is any better today?

There's that one 'experiment' in Kansas City with a judge throwing millions of dollars at black education to improve it that apparently failed.

The problem I see with 'desegregation' is that at some point you run out of white children to 'integrate' with your children who desperately need an 'integrated' education for whatever reason.

Is there some kind of breeding program to address this?

We must secure the existence of our people and a future for integrated education.

education of African-Americans is any better today?

Relatively, yes. Unfortunately comparable data seems only really to go back to the 70s - though desegregation of schools took a while to get going in earnest - but since then the black-white achievement gap has been closing at a fair clip - convergence stalled in the 90s but got back on course in the 2000s. State-based data which would allow us to look just at the South only goes back to 1990 disappointingly, so we don't know what component of convergence is accounted for by non-Southern states - still though, the overall picture is of a gap closing post-integration, and in 1970 still over half of African-Americans lived in the South.

Would you have a reference of a discussion of these results? I really wouldn't know where to look for something like that.

I could see a number of HBD-compatible explanations for these results. For example the development in race relations which caused the end of segregation has been having an effect on the genetic structure of the 'black' population. While inter-marriage was common during segregation, it is probably more common now. Moreover, it's possible that the children of these mixed unions identify in a different way than they would have 70 years ago.

Here is an analogy from Australia: Indigenous award recipients. Perhaps 2 or 3 of the people pictured look like they have obvious Aboriginal ancestry, 80% would probably pass as 'white'.

I imagine that Americans who could convincingly represent themselves as 'white' in the 1950s probably would, as this would most likely open doors to them. Up to 10% of African ancestry was found in Americans who identify as 'white'. Now in 2024, there are obvious incentives to self-identify as 'black'. People like Barack Obama or Jordan Peele who do look 'black', still had a 'white' mother. Conceivably, they could have a sibling that would look a lot 'whiter' and they could be just as well-achieving. If the 'black' student population of today is actually a lot 'whiter' than before, it's hard to tell if the gains have anything to do with a change in how the education is actually delivered.

Another factor to consider would be that the education system is very much focused on delivering 'good' results on the 'black' education front. It's possible that the way some of these institutions work is influencing the measurements of the outcomes. Perhaps, in the same manner as the progressive DAs immediately release violent offenders without bail, there is some kind of 'systemic anti-racism' at play that would contribute to these alleged gains.

I'm very much curious to read what they attribute the gains to.

Better access to more competent teachers ('white' ones)? Passive diffusion of so-called 'white' values from the 'white' pupils to the 'black' ones? More money taken from 'white' taxpayers? General lowering of expectations as a consequence of the ruin of society brought about by the same forces that ended segregation?

Would you have a reference of a discussion of these results? I really wouldn't know where to look for something like that.

Some stuff here; https://cepa.stanford.edu/educational-opportunity-monitoring-project/achievement-gaps/race/

For example the development in race relations which caused the end of segregation has been having an effect on the genetic structure of the 'black' population

I don't think this can account for the 1970s and 1980s improvement in black performance. By 1980 black inter-racial marriage rates were a whopping 5%, a figure which increased only quite slowly and gradually over the following years, not really compatible with the quickest convergence being during those years. There is the question you raise about changes in identification, but again I don't think that was occurring - not in most of the country anyway - to any significant extent during the fastest years of decline (during the years to which that data goes back).

It's possible that the way some of these institutions work is influencing the measurements of the outcomes

That doesn't seem too likely given the nature of the data. It's from the National Assessment of Educational Progress tests, who administer their own nationwide tests to students, which are (obviously) the same for every race. Could there be some increased level of teaching to the tests etc. from teachers/schools in order to boost their numbers. Maybe? But again if this were so you'd surely expect the strongest effect of that to be now, when the schools are under pressure to improve equitable outcomes etc., not in the 1970s. And wouldn't we see that reflected across the board, not just in black students? If this was a case of schools/districts marking their own homework, no pun intended, then one might be more suspicious but I don't think it is.

Better access to more competent teachers ('white' ones)? Passive diffusion of so-called 'white' values from the 'white' pupils to the 'black' ones?

Well to be clear, if it were either of these that would validate the Brown decision, because it would prove that segregation was lowering the relative quality of the education received by black students.

General lowering of expectations as a consequence of the ruin of society brought about by the same forces that ended segregation?

What forces do you suppose these to have been? I would put the Cold War and WW2 pretty high on the list of things that ended segregation, not sure they brought about the ruin of society though.

Thank you for the source, unfortunately I didn't see an explanation for what is causing these gaps to shrink slightly.

Well to be clear, if it were either of these that would validate the Brown decision, because it would prove that segregation was lowering the relative quality of the education received by black students.

So should the Department of Education start subsidizing 'white' birthrates to ensure an adequate supply of 'white' students to improve education for everybody or?

What forces do you suppose these to have been?

Modernity, hubris, the Evil One... it's hard to say. Whatever reason there was to blow up a somewhat functional society at the time, even for a lack of foresight, blind optimism, carelessness... Hard lessons the future will have to learn. One should not concern themselves with slippery slopes but with slippery slopes leading to slipperier slopes. Each of our stumbles makes the next more acceptable and the very idea of a stumble confused.

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