This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I have to keep one eye on the mods as I try to answer that, because a full and frank appraisal of the two Onlie Begetters will get me into trouble 😁
The selling point originally was that Jeff is a mega huge super-duper Tolkien fan, loves the books even more than he loves banging the hot chick next door, and it was his life's dream to bring a version of the legendarium to the TV screen.
The truth is that Bezos wanted to sell a ton of new Prime subscriptions via the screening service, sign up to see the must-watch shows of the year and now you have your subscription why not stick around and do some shopping?, and to do that he needed a big tentpole show. So he wanted his own Game of Thrones but unhappily they were already making House of the Dragon elsewhere. Where to next for fantasy doorstopper hits? Hey, there's that Tolkien guy and his books that got turned into movies that made a ton of money, Amazon sells massive amounts of merch from all of those. Problem solved!
Problem not solved, as they didn't have the rights to anything except the Lord of the Rings plus the Appendices, and if they tried remaking the movies, the rights holders there would come down on them like a ton of bricks. I think they wanted the Silmarillion but couldn't get the rights. They were hampered by only being able to use the material they had the rights to, so they couldn't make the changes or bring in characters mentioned in other works, so we only get very fleeting glimpses of Valinor and so forth. Instead, they took the book - and more so, the movie - characters and moved them back in time to the Second Age, then merrily pushed on with rewriting Tolkien.
They couldn't have Hobbits, for instance, so they gave us Harfoots instead. No these aren't Hobbits, don't be silly, they're the ancestors of Hobbits! and so on for their changes. Thus, they fell between two stools: they based early marketing on "gonna be so faithful to the writings, gonna tell the story of the Second Age" for the lore nerds, but they also had to do the DEI stuff, with rationales about 'writing the novel Tolkien never wrote' and 'representing the modern world'. After all, this was going to launch the streaming service globally, so they needed non-white characters for overseas audiences. They had to fix Tolkien's diversity problem.
That also meant they had a ready-made excuse when the show was downvoted to Utumno: it was being review-bombed by trolls and toxic white supremacist racist haters of strong women and non-white persons! It wasn't because of trampling on the lore or some really bad story decisions, no it was all racism, sexism, homophobia and whatever Waldreg is cooking up in that barn masquerading as a pub in Tirharad.
The fun (in a grim way) part afterwards was when the same media outlets which had been pouring praise on the show and selling the line that it was all Italian Fascists hating on it, then turned around and went "yeah, it was a bit shit". The one guy I respect on this is Eric Kain, who started out as "give it a chance, it looks good" but after a couple of episodes went "yeah, it's crap" and did entertaining reviews.
Now, to be fair, there was an element of the Italian Fascist sort amongst the criticism, and those who didn't accept that as a different medium television has to make a ton of changes to books, but it certainly was not the whole of it, nor even the majority. But say one word about anything less than awesome, and you're a far-right woman and minority hater, was the reaction.
More options
Context Copy link