site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of February 26, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

How would you go about protecting the patients from themselves? In the examples you mentioned, doctors have a duty to explain things and even repeat doing so when necessary, but you can't force them to act the way you want.

With side effects the issue is that from the most typical medicine anyone takes, to ones with more serious side effects, you will find a long list of potentially dangerous side effects. So long that is ignored. People are trained by such experience to dismiss the issue.

I agree with another poster that the key medical advice should be written down. People forget things and if they have it written down a greater share will follow it. Good communication requires adequate emphasis and summarization. People are fallible and then a decent share of people would be lower IQ. Of course, the doctor's should do their job and at the end of the day the patient has their own responsibility to live their life and to follow their doctor's advice. You can't do it for them.

The doctor's duty is to try to be effective communicators that adequately explain the issue in a manner that most people would understand and able to follow, if the patient's desire to do so. It isn't a checklist that just mentioning an issue means that they have done a good job.

This essentially means some paternalism, since it requires extra effort for some patients. But only to a point. Basically any field will have a million of "reasonable person" subjective tests that good professionals must try to follow.

Only allowing elective work to be done (especially risky or life altering stuff) after a longitudinal period sounds like a good step. Pretty common to do this for trans stuff but less so for things like a tummy tuck or the sterilization, which can also go wrong but we are happy to do.

I generally get the feeling the consent process exists to protect us from patients not the other way around, and longer/more clear communication may not help with that.

Written communication can be a problem sometimes though - you are going to have to write down that one of the risks is death, or other scary things and it's going to be worth it, and rare. But having that on a piece of paper that someone can stare at can be a bad thing.