This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Well, we've come around from 'seeking external help is always bad' to 'sometimes seeking external help is good and sometimes it's not'. I guess I can't argue with that.
I think you don’t understand what the posters above meant by “internal locus of control” and you are not distinguishing blaming external factors vs. seeking external assistance.
“The whole world is against me.”
Vs.
“I need help to overcome a challenge.”
No, that's just negative versus positive framing. Of course positive framing sounds better - it always does. Internal versus external would be more like 'the whole world is against me' versus 'i am to blame for everything bad in my life'. Both are negative, but one is internal loc and one is external. Or 'I need help to overcome a challenge' versus 'I need to overcome this challenge without help' or even 'other people cannot help me'.
The difference you’re failing to understand is that “I need to overcome this challenge without help” can be utterly self-defeating if, in fact, assistance is needed to make progress.
No one I’m aware of is advocating “go it alone.”
If you think the advocates of radical self-responsibility and an internal locus of control are preaching an avoidance of seeking external help when sensible, then I think you’re misunderstanding the message.
The point is to avoid blaming external things and to take maximum control of one’s life, not to only use one’s own capacities ever.
Yes. But that doesn't make it not Internal Locus of Control.
You're right that advocates don't phrase their ideology in that way. Advocates of this kind of 'born alone, die alone' individualism rarely phrase it in those exact terms, and frame it positively, in terms of independence and self-mastery, rather than in terms of isolation and self-blame.
Going to the doctor because you broke your leg is orthogonal to the internal locus of control issue of blaming someone else for your problems or solely relying on others.
You don’t understand what the advocates are advocating and I assure you it is not the idea that one should never seek external assistance.
Internal locus of control != absolute self-reliance.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link