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PaperclipPerfector  9mo ago (text post)   3294 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for January 26, 2024

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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It just occurred to me -- I guess Americans mostly falls in the with the Arab/Chinese/Koreans on this matter? Or maybe somewhere in between. If you sent someone a "tikkie" in the U.S. for a coffee, I think a lot of people would think you're stingy. When I used to eat out with friends after around the age of 25 or so (i.e. when most people weren't scraping to get by), usually someone would pick up the bill for the entire table, and then next time it would be someone else's turn to pick it up. Occasionally there were weasels in the group who tried to only pick up the tab at the cheapest restaurants, but we usually would just go somewhere fancy next time it was their turn and stick them with the bill. Some people probably came out ahead a few bucks here and there but complaining about that would have seemed petty.

I spent most of my time in the South though and America is really a handful of nations in a trenchcoat pretending to be a single unified nation, so perhaps norms are different elsewhere.

EDIT:

It’s an honor to pay for another.

N=1 but this is pretty much how I feel. I feel proud to be generous with my money and pay for my friends. Not sure how much of that is culture vs personality vs something else.

When I used to eat out with friends after around the age of 25 or so (i.e. when most people weren't scraping to get by), usually someone would pick up the bill for the entire table, and then next time it would be someone else's turn to pick it up. Occasionally there were weasels in the group who tried to only pick up the tab at the cheapest restaurants, but we usually would just go somewhere fancy next time it was their turn and stick them with the bill.

Huh, in Poland and Germany norm is that anyone pays for themself. At least among people I know well.

Yeah, it’s one of those interesting cultural differences like whether it’s normal to take your friends out for food on your birthday or whether it’s normal for them to take you.

Another difference: in Poland it is typical to organize this at home, rather than dining out.

This is probably mostly a personality thing, but I hate the “I’m buying this time” culture that is pretty much standard both in America and also it seems in most of the English-speaking world. I hate it in part for OCD type reasons that David Mitchell lays out here, but also because I’m quite frugal by nature, which hurts both when I’m paying and when I’m not. When someone else is paying, I feel the need to keep my tab to a minimum, so as not to impose. When I’m paying, I still keep my tab to a minimum, since I’d rather not waste my money on eating out. My friends, on the other hand, don’t share my frugality, so they’ll happily order more expensive items regardless of whether they’re paying, which means I always end up paying extra to cover their profligacy. I much prefer the Dutch system.

Is it because you're uncomfortable feeling like you "owe" someone or are "owed" something? I used to be like that to the point where I would refuse gifts from friends and family sometimes, but I realized one day that allowing someone else to be generous to you is actually also an act of humility and generosity on your own part since you're making your self "vulnerable" in a sense. Since then, I've tried to freely accepted gifts (though I do try to gift back later when I have the chance).

Hmm, maybe in part. I don’t have a problem giving or receiving explicit gifts. It’s the ambiguous nature of the paying-for-each-others’-meals arrangement that has always slightly bothered me (are these gifts or is the understanding that it will all even out in the end?). That and the fact that I dislike spending extra money on eating and drinking out. Plus it’s not something I grew up with. Even my extended family goes Dutch on the few occasions we all go out together.

It doesn’t really work well at Western restaurants where everyone orders their own food and drinks because of this defection risk (unless you really trust your dining companions, it’s always best to just order the steak/lobster/stack the cocktails for game theory reasons).

But in the Middle East and China it tends traditionally to be one person (not necessarily the person paying, but one person) ordering for the whole table, and then maybe ordering drinks for the table, so it makes more sense. Even when I’m with Chinese clients at Western restaurants they have typically tended (certainly more than average) to order sharing dishes or, say, the tasting menu for the whole table.

game theory reasons

Until you consider the iterated game, and realize that you're not going to be invited back if you order obnoxiously expensive meals and drinks.

Yes if as @reactionary_peasant notes you follow my exaggerated example literally and order a $200 meal when your friends spend $50. But if you just get a $12 G&T while your friends get $7 beers each round of drinks, or you order slightly more expensive sides or dessert or a marginally more expensive meal then you can usually get away with it and won't be disowned as a friend at all. And in time that's essentially taking hundreds of dollars more than you 'should' if the desire is actual equal contribution.

Also, only tangentially related, but in Japan there's a fascinating phenomenon at business meals (even internal meals!) where the first person to order will order entree X and drink Y, and then everyone else at the table will follow suit, with the chances of someone ordering something different decreasing in proportion to how late they place their order (i.e. the last person to order is almost guaranteed not to order something else).

I've asked Japanese people about this and they say that they don't want to break the flow or harmony and that it would be embarrassing or it would draw attention to order something else. As western barbarian steeped in individualism, I can only comprehend this on a theoretical, intellectual level. It's totally alien to me.

I do this all the time! That is, just piggyback on someone else's order, and find it slightly pleasing/harmonious if others at the table do as well.

I feel like it's a minor bonus to group cohesion if we all do a thing together. (eg. if everyone has poutine, or everyone orders a Caesar). I'm pretty indecisive, and not too picky, so anything that helps tip the scales one way or another, I'll just go with it. There's also some consideration for kitchen/bar/server efficiency.

unless you really trust your dining companions, it’s always best to just order the steak/lobster/stack the cocktails for game theory reasons

Not sure if you're joking but this is the sort of comment that makes me wonder if motteposters spend much time around normal average people (no particular offense meant towards you). If someone did this in my friend group he'd be cajoled into paying $10-20 towards the bill. You probably couldn't swing steak and lobster but if everyones getting chicken fajitas you could probably get the steak fajitas for +$3 without anyone complaining. It's kind of like going over the speed limit. Everyone just sort of knows that you can go roughly 5 over in a 40MPH zone and roughly 10 over in a 70MPH zone since the cops are people instead of robots

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