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PaperclipPerfector  10mo ago (text post)   26213 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 1, 2024

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You asked "And how many times has Russia been invaded in the last century, approximately?"

I am pretty sure that Napoleon was over 100 years ago. (you went with "And how many times has Russia been invaded in the last century, approximately?" limiter)

The US has meddled 'far' more in Russian political affairs than the reverse

For start, we were talking about military invasions, right?

Russia and Nazi Germany had a NAP, they were never official "allies."

They were allied enough to hold joint victory parade and cooperate invading together and sign official documents (secret part of Ribbentrop-Molotov).

Both sides being shitty and running earlier propaganda about each other and one of them being first to backstab is not changing that they were allies.

If you are so deep that you deny USSR/Third Reich alliance then this response chain is not even fun. Reality-adjacent people with alien priorities are fun, reality denial is masturbatory, boring and lame.

Then contrary to NATO's official mandate

how it is contrary to NATO's official mandate? NATO is a collective security system and main threat to its members is Russia.

Then what explains NATO's actions against them?

Which one? The part where they acted against Russian aggressions or part where they failed to respond?

You asked "And how many times has Russia been invaded in the last century, approximately?"

Yes I did. And "approximately" was the key word in that sentence.

For start, we were talking about military invasions, right?

Seems to me like they win the persecution gig no matter which way you look at it.

They were allied enough to hold joint victory parade and cooperate invading together and sign official documents (secret part of Ribbentrop-Molotov).

Does that change what I said at all?

how it is contrary to NATO's official mandate? NATO is a collective security system and main threat to its members is Russia.

Which is quite funny, because every subsequent administration from George Bush on was desperate to convince Russia that exactly this proposition 'wasn't' true, and that they don't view them as a threat and likewise Russia shouldn't view them as a threat.

Which one? The part where they acted against Russian aggressions or part where they failed to respond?

The part where the US refuses to respect the geopolitical security concerns of other countries and is driving the expansion a hostile military alliance all the way up to the borders of Russia. If NATO refuses to respect the security concerns of Russia, don't be surprised when Russia doesn't respect theirs.

Yes I did. And "approximately" was the key word in that sentence.

1912 is "approximately" last century. 1812 is not.

Since 1900, the major threats to Russian security have been:

  • Communist takeover in the context of a lost war of choice (Russia did not have a formal alliance against Serbia and was not obliged to threaten Austria. Russia orders general mobilization to make the threat against Austria more credible, which is the first aggressive move by a Great Power against another Great Power, and also the tipping point after which operational convenience is pushing the Great Powers into WW1 rather than away from it).
  • Domestic incompetence, repression, and genocide by the communist government, including a wide-ranging purge of experienced officers which temporarily gimped the combat effectiveness of the Soviet military.
  • Their ally in an aggressive war against Poland turning on them.
  • Nuclear conflict with their WW2 ally - the proximate cause being the Soviets ratting on the Yalta agreement by refusing to allow free elections in post-war Poland, and more generally setting up client states with repressive domestic policies in its sphere of influence rather than Finlands.
  • A crisis caused by the Soviets escalating said nuclear conflict by trying to put nukes in the USA's backyard.
  • A border dispute with their former ally, Red China.
  • The usual blowback from starting a land war in Asia in 1979
  • The collapse of the Soviet Union (causes unclear to me, but primarily domestic and not foreign) and an associated period of State failure and large-scale looting of public assets.
  • A Muslim insurgency in Chechnya and associated terrorism.
  • An attempted coup by the leader of a mercenary company set up in order to fight aggressive wars.

This doesn't look like invading its neighbors in order to create buffer zones has been a net positive for Russian security.

The collapse of the Soviet Union (causes unclear to me, but primarily domestic and not foreign) and an associated period of State failure and large-scale looting of public assets.

The reasons for that were utter failure of Soviet Union economical system, failure of political one and relative success of competition (google Boris Yeltsin 1989 supermarket for story illustrating how badly they failed). Also, noone believed in system enough to brutally suppress malcontents so they failed also at spiritual level.

(everyone knew that everyone was lying and everyone knew that others know and they lied anyway - and almost the same for stealing, that is not sustainable long term)

1912 is "approximately" last century. 1812 is not.

It's good enough for me.

This doesn't look like invading its neighbors in order to create buffer zones has been a net positive for Russian security.

Seeing as you didn't actually 'dispute' the examples I previously brought up, but merely added to the existing list you own set of conflicts, I'll take my point has having been proven.

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