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Quit having your dog come through our hole in the fence.
Well, very large part of my lack of enthusiasm toward Russia is that Russia considers Poland as being within their rightful fence.
For me whole point of NATO is to have strong guard dog keeping Russian bear away. Yes, away from they consider their area to grab.
Maybe if they would not do stuff like role playing invasion of Poland and dropping nuclear weapon on Warsaw as part of their military exercises I would be liking Russian government more and would be more supportive for it.
Yeah, I hear this too. And what's the reliable source for anticipating the inevitable Putin invasion of Europe that I'm always told about?
Ah yes. "NATO is justified to manage the security threats provoked by its own existence."
Wait until you hear about the invasion plans the US has cooked up on the backend for its own neighbors. It's a pity we didn't have such hawkish stooges in the Kennedy administration, encouraging him to dig his heels in all the more against Khrushchev. After all, he might not have invaded Puerto Rico.
I want safety for myself, my children and grandchildren. I am not expecting Russian invasion of Poland in 2024 or 2025. But I prefer it to keep unlikely going into 2030s, 2040s and into further future.
And for why Russian invasion of Poland is a security threat... Well, it happened repeatedly in the past, Russia keeps invading and being aggressive and is trying to restore its empire.
(and I am not claiming it is inevitable! if it would be inevitable then trying to reduce risk of it would be pointless!)
Circassian genocide, Russian invasion of Poland etc predate NATO. NATO was created in reaction to Russia being a threat.
I am not aware of USA roleplaying nuclear attack on specific cities during their military exercises.
In general there is difference between having backup plans and roleplaying imperial invasion during military exercises.
And how many times has Russia been invaded in the last century, approximately? Now tell me they have no valid security concerns of their own that should be respected.
NATO was created as a bulwark against the USSR, not Russia. When the Cold War ended and the Warsaw Pact dissolved, the impetus for NATO should've went along with the rest of it, unless it exists for ulterior motives; and unluckily for the west, Putin isn't stupid enough to be fooled into thinking NATO isn't a military alliance hellbent on economically strangling Russia and preventing it from developing it's sphere of influence.
Let me be the first to tell you, 'all' nations run simulations and have attack plans in place for their neighbors. When it was revealed that the US had plans for an invasion of Canada, it was a surprise to everybody that 'wasn't' paying attention to geopolitics.
Can you tell me how many and list this cases?
I remember World War II when they were invaded by own ally, in war they started by invading Poland.
Maybe Soviet–Japanese border conflicts count, but not sure who invaded who.
Anything else? It looks like Russian imperialism in main valid security concern of Russia.
Looking how many times Russia invaded neighbours in this time is quite fun, and managed to surprise me.
Russia was/is a problem in its incarnations of Tzarist Russia, USSR and Russian Federation. That is basically the same problem.
Yes, NATO exists to preventing Russia from developing it's sphere of influence. In particular, to prevent invading Baltics or Poland. Prevent/blocking invasions of Ukraine is helpful to prevent escalation.
Sadly, NATO isn't a military alliance hellbent on economically strangling Russia. Sanctions were sadly too late and too weak, what exists now should have been applied in 2014 and escalated since then.
Yes, but not as publicized propaganda exercises.
Well let's see... Napoleon invaded them. Germany invaded them. Japan invaded them. The west invaded them. The US has meddled 'far' more in Russian political affairs than the reverse. Seems to me like they've got some pretty valid security concerns that demand more than NATO's "just trust me bro," sycophants in the US think Russia should be satisfied with.
Russia and Nazi Germany had a NAP, they were never official "allies."
Russia wasn't the initial aggressor.
Then contrary to NATO's official mandate, Russia's concerns are quite valid if this is an admission that NATO will always be opposed to Russia's geopolitical interests.
There you go. And that's how we got where we are.
Then what explains NATO's actions against them? See The Putin Interviews if you're actually looking for an answer.
Point: be cynical and draw up plans against your neighbors. Just don't go public with it. It's pretty sad you're going for style over substance on this. If bad optics is the worst you can say about them, I'll happily take the concession.
You asked "And how many times has Russia been invaded in the last century, approximately?"
I am pretty sure that Napoleon was over 100 years ago. (you went with "And how many times has Russia been invaded in the last century, approximately?" limiter)
For start, we were talking about military invasions, right?
They were allied enough to hold joint victory parade and cooperate invading together and sign official documents (secret part of Ribbentrop-Molotov).
Both sides being shitty and running earlier propaganda about each other and one of them being first to backstab is not changing that they were allies.
If you are so deep that you deny USSR/Third Reich alliance then this response chain is not even fun. Reality-adjacent people with alien priorities are fun, reality denial is masturbatory, boring and lame.
how it is contrary to NATO's official mandate? NATO is a collective security system and main threat to its members is Russia.
Which one? The part where they acted against Russian aggressions or part where they failed to respond?
Yes I did. And "approximately" was the key word in that sentence.
Seems to me like they win the persecution gig no matter which way you look at it.
Does that change what I said at all?
Which is quite funny, because every subsequent administration from George Bush on was desperate to convince Russia that exactly this proposition 'wasn't' true, and that they don't view them as a threat and likewise Russia shouldn't view them as a threat.
The part where the US refuses to respect the geopolitical security concerns of other countries and is driving the expansion a hostile military alliance all the way up to the borders of Russia. If NATO refuses to respect the security concerns of Russia, don't be surprised when Russia doesn't respect theirs.
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