site banner
PaperclipPerfector  10mo ago (text post)   25097 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 25, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

8
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I get this is a well-intentioned comment, but I assure you that most of the experiences you mention are hardly foreign to me.

Have I had to suffer through traffic? Yes. Bad stoplights? Yes. Cross an inconvenient highway to get to the other side? Yes. And while dodging cows while I'm at. Annoying u-turn restrictions? There's one walking distance from my door. Geriatric Cadillac driver? Well, I've never encountered a Cadillac, but rest assured I've been tempted to misuse my license to double check theirs.

You've never sat in a 10 mile traffic backup caused by people's inability to not slow down and look at crashed cars and ambulances on the other side of the highway. You've never changed brake pads on the street. You've never paid significantly more for an apartment that had a garage. You've never paid $250/month for a parking lease at work. You've never spent 45 minutes at a dead standstill between the bend at Bates and the Squirrel Hill Tunnel, not once, but every. Fucking. Day. As part of your commute.

Discounting the obvious Americanisms, I've been in traffic delayed by rubbernecking at accidents. I've fortunately never had to change brake pads at all. Apartments with guaranteed and reserved parking do cost more. Thankfully my hospital doesn't nickel and dime me with parking, but that'll change in the NHS.

No really, I am well aware of the difficulties that car ownership entails, and I would wager it's even worse here with the quality of the roads, the cows, people who consider the laws of the road more akin to flexible guidelines, and no end of other issues. About the only thing I'm certain I'm better off without is the risk of someone pulling a gun out of road rage.

And I still prefer widespread car-ownership. It's a pretty sweet deal the moment you remember you have (or plan to have) a large family, carry a bunch of crap like groceries, travel to places outside a city that don't fall on convenient rail or bus routes and so on. Even in the UK, it's expected that a doctor should have a car, I had to sign a waiver for my training application where I indemnify the NHS against paying for any expenses incurred if I'm urgently forced to rent a cab or take public transport.

Much like democracy, having a car is the worst possible option barring all the others.

Having a car and needing a car to the extent that residents of much of America do are two very different things. Even in most walkable European cities with excellent public transport, many people own cars - a clear majority when you restrict 'people' to parents, for example. Owning a car is normal and fine. But owning one doesn't mean you need to use it to get everywhere.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats