site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 25, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

8
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I disagree with everything you've just said.

We are nowhere near "resource constrained", the primary concerns with giving everyone First World/American lifestyles is energy and carbon emissions, both of which are solvable problems. Invest in nuclear, or continue waiting for renewables to be even more competitive (they already are, even without market subsidies), and then do one of the many forms of geoeningeering needed to deal with the climactic changes.

I see no fundamental barriers to drastically raising the global standard of living. Certainly none that can't be solved, or won't inevitably be solved.

We are nowhere near "resource constrained", the primary concerns with giving everyone First World/American lifestyles is energy and carbon emissions, both of which are solvable problems.

In the specific case driving this subthread, which is giving everyone convenient private transportation, the binding constraint is not resources (electric cars charged from nuclear power are a thing) but geometry. There are only so many cars (both moving and parked - separate problems with different issues, both of which need to be solved to make car culture work) that can be in any given space at the same time, and the demand for space scales faster with the available space as the metro area population increases. Above a metro area population of about 100,000, you need to demolish any pre-car neighborhoods and purpose-build the whole city around car travel if you want it to not suck. Above a metro are population of about 5 million, there isn't room for enough more roads and suckage is inevitable.

Quite right, one of the great things about our world is that matter is fungible. Once we dig up some iron and smelt it into steel, we can keep on using that steel, reforging and casting it. 20% of China's steel production is recycled from scrap metal.

I think a lot of people subconsciously fall into a video-game logic of 'once I exhaust that gold mine the gold is gone, have to find new gold deposit'. The gold is still there!