site banner
naraburns  nihil supernum  11mo ago (text post)   1449 thread views

Transnational Thursday for December 21, 2023

After thirty weeks as @Soriek's passion project, Transnational Thursday is getting added to the auto-post bot. But it hasn't been added to the bot yet, I think, so I'm posting it this week, with apologies to anyone whose plans I've mussed!

Transnational Thursday is a thread for people to discuss international news, foreign policy or international relations history. Feel free as well to drop in with coverage of countries you’re interested in, talk about ongoing dynamics like the wars in Israel or Ukraine, or even just whatever you’re reading.

12
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Chile

Chile held their referendum on a new constitution prepared by the conservatives and rejected it by 56%. The comes two years after the country agreed they wanted to replace their dictator-era constitution, and a little more than a year after they rejected a constitution prepared by left wingers. At this point no one is happy with what they have, but they don’t see eye-to-eye enough to agree on something new.

Polls show Chileans are more concerned about security and a struggling economy rather than drafting a new constitution. Sunday's vote was also seen as a bellwether for the country's right-wing ahead of the 2025 election, but now texts from both political aisles have been widely rejected, leaving the outcome of the race uncertain.

The first proposed text was drafted by leftist legislators and focused on social, gender, Indigenous and environmental rights while the second reinforced the country's free-market policies and emphasized property and religious rights, while potentially restricting access to abortion.

The second rewrite was dominated by the right-wing Republican party, led by Jose Antonio Kast, who lost against leftist President Gabriel Boric during the last election.

President Boric has said they will not try again, and maybe it really is for the best to leave this chapter behind. He has now said he will focus on taxes and pension reforms.

What do "liberal" and "conservative" mean in current-day Chile? Is the difference mostly down to economic policy?

There are definitely economic differences but maybe less so than in the past; the growing cleavages nowadays are social/political.

For much of the 2000s the Chilean left standard bearer was actually the Socialist Party (the one that was suspended during the right wing dictatorship) and their successive party/coalitions, which have quickly slid into a tiny minority. The current President Gabriel Boric founded his own party, Social Convergence, which does contain elements / prior parties focused on socialist economics but is more about left wing social politics, such as gender equality, indigenous rights, LGBT rights, and environmentalism. During the election commenters were surprised how little he leaned (beyond rhetoric) into actual economically populist policies despite there being a pretty high demand for them (Chile had just come out of big protests over living costs that began with a hike in train fares). He did try nationalize lithium ion but probably knew that was impossible without the constitution being amended. He's also tried (and failed) to advance better labor laws, healthcare, and pension reform, so the economic differences between the parties are there and genuine.

The conservatives (actually called the Republican party) are all in on free market economics, but are also much farther to the right politically than previous conservative opposition. They're pretty much the reverse of all the stuff Boric is into, they make a lot of hay out of opposing immigration, gay marriage, indigenous rights, abortion, yadda yadda. Their leader Antonio Kast, the runner up against Boric, is a pretty open Pinochet apologist.

Interesting, thank you! Much more similarity to American CW than I would've expected. Even down to both sides being right of center economically.

No problem! It is in ways surprisingly similar at times to the US, though I do think it's still fair to call SC center-left / left rather than center-right economically (though the Socialist Party may well disagree). Ironically while the two parties' divisions are largest socially, it probably was mostly the poor economy and persistent inflation that lost the left the last legislative elections. Chileans have used up some of their patience on politicians putting exciting hot button stuff over bread and butter issues, a lesson for the conservatives after their failed attempt at a constitution as well.

At this point no one is happy with what they have, but they don’t see eye-to-eye enough to agree on something new.

If this doesn't sum up the era we live in, I don't know what does.

Something that is in even the slightest way different from all the other eras would probably be better.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats