This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The Palestinians also have the backing of the global hegemon, though they are backed by a different faction within it.
This is a bizarre situation and it is the reason why we hear about this war constantly from the press- in stark contrast to for instance Yemen or Azerbaijan.
Ultimately both sides are at the mercy of the US navy, and they behave accordingly.
No faction in America has complete control of anything, least of all the government.
The pro Palestinian side however, has far more than you give them credit for- they have major pull in education, media, and NGO spaces.
More options
Context Copy link
The pro-Palestinian faction, or rather the faction with some ethnic and/or religious loyalties to Palestinians, represents many key US allies in critical regions of the world for great power rivalry (eg in the Middle East and South East Asia).
Malaysia, for example, is one of the most pro-Palestinian countries in the world and isn’t even close to the Levant. You’d be surprised at how zealous they are in support of Palestine, how glued they are to the TV about how many Gazans are killed, how much they desperately LARP as Arabs and aspire to be great Muslims. And Malaysia is a key ally with a large Chinese minority and extensive Chinese political and economic influence. Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world. Pakistan is a key player in China’s new silk road stuff.
So for wider geopolitical reasons giving full license to Israel to do what they want with the Palestinians - even if the Gulf Arabs and Egyptians are fine with it - isn’t in the US’ interests.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link