site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 27, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I'm not arguing that Hitler was a military genius. He certainly had his moments, for example he correctly sided with the Ardennes option during the planning of the invasion of France. But his track record as a military leader is mixed. My point, and the reason why I brought Hitler up, is that judging Castro's achievements in the Cuban Revolution based on the fact that he had been let out of jail by his opponents at some point in the past does not make sense.

I don't understand why you don't want to admit that invading Cuba with 80 men, getting most of them killed on the first day, fleeing to the mountains with 20 men, and then building a base of support that allows you to conquer the whole island two years later, is not a great feat of generalship.

I do want to admit that it's not great generalship! That's my whole argument.

The reasons Castro won were predominantly political, not military. Throughout his whole life, he displayed military ineptitude. He got released from prison after failing his first attempt at revolution, losing the battle. He fumbled his landing attempt, arriving late:

The plan had been for the crossing to take five days, and on the Granma's scheduled day of arrival, 30 November, MR-26-7 members under Frank País led an armed uprising in Santiago and Manzanillo. However, the Granma's journey ultimately lasted seven days, and with Castro and his men unable to provide reinforcements, País and his militants dispersed after two days of intermittent attacks.

He lost 75% of his men in the first few days of landing. Cortes didn't do that! As I read further, Castro even gets support from the CIA! So much for defeating the strongest government in the world...

In the Sierra Maestra mountains, Castro was joined by Frank Sturgis who offered to train Castro's troops in guerrilla warfare. Castro accepted the offer, but he also had an immediate need for guns and ammunition, so Sturgis became a gunrunner. Sturgis purchased boatloads of weapons and ammunition from Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) weapons expert Samuel Cummings' International Armament Corporation in Alexandria, Virginia. Sturgis opened a training camp in the Sierra Maestra mountains, where he taught Che Guevara and other 26 July Movement rebel soldiers guerrilla warfare.

Castro won because apparently everyone, US deep state goons included, favoured him over the disintegrating Bastillo regime. He was charismatic, not a great military leader. And even if he had beaten the Cuban government solely with force of arms, that still wouldn't make him a great leader. Beating a weak Cuban government is not a sufficient feat to put you up there with Cortes.

Cortes beat an utterly hated Aztec Empire that probably had less support from the population it ruled than Batista's government had from its. And like Castro, Cortez also came within a hair's breadth of being destroyed at one point. Plus Cortez was going up against an empire that had technology equivalent to the European Bronze Age, whereas Castro was going up against a country that had the same level of technology that he did.