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PaperclipPerfector  11mo ago (text post)   3499 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for November 24, 2023

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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Pointlessly suicidal demands that a captain literally go down with their ship exist, but they're outliers and often self-enforced (and sometimes overriden by other staff).

The phrase dates back to and probably originates from the Birkenhead Drill, where the ship could not float enough lifeboats for its crew and soldiers, and that as a result the officers commanded and demonstrated willingness to attempt a long (and for most, suicidal) swim to shore rather than swamp or overturn the lifeboats, resulting in a greater number of deaths.

In the modern day, (almost) all ships have enough lifeboats for an excess of passengers and crew: in these contexts, the demand is more than staff should remain until both all passengers have been disembarked (and the ship has been certainly lost, due to salvage law), closer to your preferred framework. However, spelling it out as potentially self-sacrificing is important: whether there are sufficient lifeboats and time to embark them, there remains a serious temptation for crew to save themselves while leaving their charges helpless. Passengers may not even be physically capable of the necessary actions to evacuate, nevermind have the knowledge of how or why to do so.

This is present even for other contexts, such as aviation, albeit in a lesser form. While there are exceptions for some types of incident where near-instant unsurvivable effects are likely to occur, both pilots and especially cabin crew are trained to evacuate as many passengers as their roles and positions in the plane allow before leaving themselves, and this matters.

That said, while I'm not very familiar with the 2008 Mumbai attacks, from what I've heard these causes don't really apply to hotel staff faced with spree killing terrorists.

God damn me.

I hate you both for your lack of culture.

When mustering for a march, it is customary to form up by hieght-line or "parade order", that is shortest to tallest with the shortest man (with the shortest legs) setting the pace for the company so the whole bloc stays together. However, for certain ceremonial circumstances it is customary to form up by "funeral order" that is youngest to oldest with the youngest at the front because this will be their first time. The famous (infamous?) command issued by Captain Salmond that later became known as "the Birkenhead drill" was to load the boats with women and the children first, and then to allocate any remaining seats by funeral order. The captain is the senior most, and (excepting an elderly passenger) often the oldest man on the ship. Being the last man off, even if it means going down with the ship, isn't pointless, it is setting a positive example.

Yeah, Birkenhead drills are far broader than just "the captain goes down with the ship" or "women and children first". In aviation, the phrase is used to not just mean a duty to passengers, but also civilians on the ground.

But I think it's important to spell out that it's not just setting a positive example, but that it did so in a way that probably saved over a hundred lives at Birkenhead, directly.

Sorry that was supposed to be one level up.

However, spelling it out as potentially self-sacrificing is important: whether there are sufficient lifeboats and time to embark them, there remains a serious temptation for crew to save themselves while leaving their charges helpless. Passengers may not even be physically capable of the necessary actions to evacuate, nevermind have the knowledge of how or why to do so.

One recent example of that is of course Costa Concordia, whose captain Francesco Schettino ran her aground while getting frisky with an exotic dancer and was the first one to evacuate. The crew, left without a leader, bungled the evacuation.

I found this entertaining and interesting enough that I've watched it like five times: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Qh9KBwqGxTI&ab_channel=InternetHistorian

The MV Sewol is another case, and one with both more egregiously bad behavior by the crew, and an even steeper death toll.

wiki:

Schettino said he left the ship when it turned over, and that he fell into a lifeboat
[...]
the on-duty Italian Coast Guard commander told Schettino, "Vada a bordo, cazzo!" ("Get on board, for fuck's sake!"), but Schettino did not do so and was one of the first to reach land.

lmao

I found this entertaining and interesting enough that I've watched it like five times: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Qh9KBwqGxTI&ab_channel=InternetHistorian

Thanks, got some good laughs from that. Surpised the video didn't use the "this is fine" dog at any point.

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