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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   27148 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 20, 2023

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Hamas started it by killing civilians, and killing civilians is one of the tactics they use as part of the war.

Yes, in the name of fighting Israel. That is a key component to the issue - the Palestinians would probably support anyone willing to fight for them against the nation they perceive as responsible for the slow dying of their people. We also know that American presidents see a boost to their approval when they declare war - why wouldn't a similar logic apply to any perceived support of Hamas?

In your scenario, the US isn't being capitalist in the name of fighting Nazis.

There's a difference between "doing X in order to do Y" and "doing X while doing Y". Capitalists fighting Nazis is the latter; Hamas is the former.

In your scenario, the US isn't being capitalist in the name of fighting Nazis.

From the standpoint of the socialist, it probably makes no difference - the capitalist mode of production remains in place and is only bolstered by removing more enemies of it. In fact, I recall one spy in the Manhattan Project giving secrets to the USSR precisely over the fear that America would be the only nation with the atomic bomb and it could be subject to fascist takeover.

But a more direct point of evidence to my view is this article.

Notably, the following:

"In this super-charged moment, the first question asked of every Palestinian is: Do you condemn the Hamas attacks?" said Omar Rahman, a U.S.-based fellow at the Middle East Council on Global Affairs, a think tank headquartered in Doha, Qatar.

"They are offended by that. They think it misses the point. ... It's an objective fact that Hamas does not represent the majority of Palestinians. That doesn't mean it doesn't have a basis of support or isn't part of the political landscape. ... Not everyone agrees with its agenda or tactics."

Then they could say "sure, we condemn them."

"We don't agree with its agenda or tactics, but we won't condemn them" means "we agree with its agenda and tactics, by revealed preference".

They think it misses the point.

It doesn't miss the point, because the point is not to get the Palestinians to talk about what's most important to themselves. It's like having a Nazi who really likes his stamp collection, but thinks "sure, all Jews should die". It doesn't "miss the point" to focus on the thing which is less important to him rather than the thing which is more important to him. It's less important to him, but it's more important to the Jews.

"We don't agree with its agenda or tactics, but we won't condemn them" means "we agree with its agenda and tactics, by revealed preference".

There's a social trick that they may be trying to avoid, wherein the condemnation is waved around as proof to remove Hamas' legitimacy and by extension, the current fighting over the Israel-Palestine issue.

But I acknowledge that I don't know and I don't necessarily have the strongest argument. I think your point is fair, but I'm not yet convinced quite yet.

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